2016 EV+ Battery Replacement Story

[mattFromLA]

This is my first post in what I hope will be a series detailing my experience getting a battery replacement under warranty.

I just purchased a 2016 EV+ on Friday. I had been researching online for months trying to find a car with the right trim, right mileage, right price and in a location I could get to. I was excited about this car, was going to be in the area for work, and the dealer had great reviews online. The test drive went well, and I negotiated the price down even further and made the purchase. Just before I left with the car, the dealer said the guessometer was off due to the way the previous driver drove but that I should see better numbers.
I made it about 26 miles on a full battery and all the warnings were going off that I had to charge. I felt anxiety, foolishness, and lot of stress, but found a charging site and eventually made it home only 1.5 hours later than I had told my family I'd be home.
That night, I researched a lot online and found this forum (thanks by the way). I plugged in my bluetooth OBD and installed Soul Spy Lite and was shocked to see a 38.8% SOH and a Max Cell deterioration of 68.1%. I have no idea what the previous owner did to the car in only 35,000 miles but the interior and exterior are still in excellent condition.
It was the weekend, so I logged a case on Kia's site and waited. Meanwhile, I found the Eco Mode button in the car and was surprised to find that mileage improved slightly after turning it on. After a long charge on the level 1 charger and a charge today on a level 2 charger, the guessometer is up to 44 miles on a nearly full battery, so my stress is down as I should able to get to work and back without having to charge at lunch.
I spoke with Kia Corporate this morning and they referred me to a local dealership where I made a service appointment this Thursday. The tech at the Dealership with whom I spoke said I should expect to leave the car there for most of the day, just to do the diagnostic.

That's my first post, I'm happy to respond to questions if any. I'll provide another update after Thursday's appointment.

 

[EVDee]

That is insane!

With such low mileage, the only guess I could make about what the previous owner did was cooking the batteries. Whether that's due to only fast charging, only parking in the sun, both: we'll (probably) never know.

As for the dealership that sold you that vehicle, I have a hard time believing that they didn't know how bad the battery was prior to selling it to you..

Best of luck in your battery replacement saga!
I'm somewhat jealous that you'll be rocking a new battery in yours soon. I'm at 84,000 miles and 84.7% SOH. As odd as it sounds, I'm really hoping mine needs a replacement within the warranty period.

 

[mattFromLA]

I dropped off the car this morning at Car Pros Kia Glendale. They said it would be $170 for the diagnostics but that if something is wrong with the car and covered under warranty, there would be no charge.
A little before 1pm, they called to let me know that they were going to order a new battery under warranty and provide me a loaner until the new battery is shipped and installed. (The loaner is a Kia Soul, but ICE not EV).
So far, I'm very happy with their service and the experience overall. I wish I could drive my EV, but it's worth the wait for a new battery.
I'll provide an update when I have one.

 

[mattFromLA]

Well, it's been 2.5 weeks. The dealership has not been very forthcoming with details. I called corporate a few times and the dealership a few times. Finally I got my service adviser to call me back today and confirmed that the part has been ordered and is currently in transit, but with no ETA. I'm assuming the car will be ready within a week or so, most likely at the most inconvenient time for me to drive over there.

 

[mattFromLA]

After the 2 week mark passed, I called the dealership but was told to just keep calling back every few days to check. That was not acceptable in my opinion, so I called Kia Corporate. The rep was very friendly and tried to lookup the part order to see when it was ordered and where it was. She was unable to find the order and said she'd contact the dealership on my behalf and get back to me. When she didn't get back to me, I called Kia Corporate back and spoke to a different rep who was able to read the notes and see that the Dealership had still not provided them with the order number, hence them not returning my call yet. This rep decided to escalate the issue to a higher tier. A few days later, I got a call from a Corporate rep located in Southern California who gave me his direct line. He was also very friendly and professional and offered me a token compensation for my inconvenience and said I could call him directly if I need anything. I called the Dealership that same day with a more stern tone and received a callback in which they told me the part was in transit, but that was all they knew.

Yesterday was the 4 week mark, and I still don't have my car. I still don't know where in transit the new battery is or from where it even originated. Somehow, no one seems to know any useful information. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a part was ordered but no one knows who ordered the part or from where they ordered it. I also do not have my token compensation from Corporate yet, which I'm ok with only because I'm expecting it to be doubled now that we're going to exceed the one month mark.

Does anyone have any advice or words of encouragement?

 

[lemurchief]

I've just had a bad experience with a dealer in GA.
Long story short: visited the dealer for the diag due to range at 45mi at 100% charge. They claimed a software update would be the solution. I advised them that battery capacity is a known issue and software would not bring back 50% of capacity. Of course, it didn't work and I ran out of juice on my way back home. Vehicle was towed back to the dealer. They said they would call me back when the diagnosis was done. Did not receive a call back. Well, it's only day 2 and seems like a very long journey is ahead of me per your experience.
The dealer did not have a loaner. KIA stated they would reimburse a rental, but it is quite frustrating to pay out of the pocket and pray for reimbursement later.

One thing you can do is to post your experience in social media. Use Twitter and @KIA and see what happens. I did it yesterday on a private message to @KIA and I got a call back from them. Include your case# from KIA corporate.

Wishing you the best of luck.

 

[mattFromLA]

Thanks for the advice, I just sent them a direct message. If that doesn't work, I'll post publicly and provide a link here.

 

[lemurchief]

Hey, any news from you?

For the second time now, KIA claimed to have repaired the car then I drive about 50mi and the battery dies with a consumption of about 4.3mi/kw. 2nd tow back to the dealership in 8 days.
Now they claim that the car is fine, and I should not drive at highway speeds. I've not driven on interstate, and took another way to keep the speeds below 55mph. Average speed was 44mph.
Simple math indicates that the capacity is about 50%, Wich matches my reading of 53% before sending the car to the dealership using SoulSpy.
The issue is that they keep resetting the BMS trying to update whatever software, and then they claim that the SOH is 100%.

This is so stupid, and I can't believe this is happening.

I wish things turned out better for you.

Cheers

 

[EVDee]

Hey, any news from you?

For the second time now ~~
The issue is that they keep resetting the BMS trying to update whatever software, and then they claim that the SOH is 100%.

Sounds like a call to Kia Corporate is required because the dealership is either clueless or malicious..
Either way, I'm hopeful for you because that's insane :shock:

 

[JejuSoul]

...Sounds like a call to Kia Corporate is required because the dealership is either clueless or malicious..

I doubt it's malicious. More likely they have never done this before and are mere following their service guidelines.
The first thing they are told to do is update the software. That is what they do.
They are not told what the software update does, nor its side-effects.

The BMS update is actually a cold weather fix for the charge timer.
They will believe it must be a fix for car showing low range.

The BMS update will reset the deterioration counters to zero.
The car computer now believes there is no deterioration.
The mechanic can now show you that the car is fixed.

Given that you do know that this commonly happens, I suggest that you try to help them understand.
Calling them clueless or malicious isn't going to help.

 

[EVDee]

Calling them clueless or malicious isn't going to help.

But it does describe the situation, so I'm not sure why being factual is controversial.

 

[mattFromLA]

I just got a call from the dealership. They said they received the part yesterday (the 6 week mark) and installed it and the car is ready to go. I'm picking it up tomorrow morning and they said they'd have it charged for me. Of course, I'm not driving much anymore since we're all on lockdown, but it will be nice to not have to go to the gas station and touch a dirty pump.
I'll post some stats later this weekend on how the new battery performs.

 

[JejuSoul]

-
Wishing you well in beating the Corona Virus in your area, and looking forward to hearing reports on your new battery.

 

[mattFromLA]

I finally have my "new" 2016 EV+. When I picked it up from the Dealership, the battery was charged to 84% and the car reported 98 miles remaining! I just took it on its first drive since I got it home and I'm doing a slow 110v charge right now. I think the best part is that cell deterioration is down to 0% and SOH is at 111.5%. Here are some screen shots: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8gvhfYzv93RckZFU6

Ironically, I don't need to drive much now that we all are supposed to stay home, but I'm at least I don't have to go to the gas station anymore!

 

[JejuSoul]

...the battery was charged to 84% and the car reported 98 miles remaining! ...

Looks good. That would be 224 km on a full battery. Am guessing the reason your battery is showing a higher GOM than mine is the warmer weather (25C). I'll test mine again next week because the weather is much warmer here now as well.

The SOH number (111.5%) shown by SoulSpy is not accurate.
If you took it to Kia they would tell you the SOH is 100%.
The original 27kWh battery pack had an 'early-years' buffer of 10% that was lost first.
I will not be able to judge the size of the 'early-years' buffer on a replacement battery pack until after it has been lost.
Maybe in two or three years.

 

[lemurchief]

I finally have my "new" 2016 EV+. When I picked it up from the Dealership, the battery was charged to 84% and the car reported 98 miles remaining! I just took it on its first drive since I got it home and I'm doing a slow 110v charge right now. I think the best part is that cell deterioration is down to 0% and SOH is at 111.5%. Here are some screen shots: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8gvhfYzv93RckZFU6

Ironically, I don't need to drive much now that we all are supposed to stay home, but I'm at least I don't have to go to the gas station anymore!

That's great. I'm glad you have your car back.

I heard nothing from KIA. Sent KIA corporate another message, and they say they'll let me know of any update.

It's insane to think that after 2 drives from 100% to empty they can't understand what is going on... Well, looks like I'll need to be extremely patient, or find a good lawyer.

 

[Sparky2]

JejuSoul wrote: I doubt it's malicious.

Well let me tell you how it might be... I am going through the same thing right now - my 2015 dropped 8% since the software update three years ago reset the SOH to 100%. So now according to the dealer I am at 92% SOH even though I can only put 18KWh into the battery (58 miles or so). So, here it is - Kia Corporate (KC) pushes out the service procedures that the Dealership follows, but KC has to follow the recommendations of the dealership (by stated procedure). See? KC puts out procedures designed to stymie anyone out for warranty service. And even though the dealer is complicit, it is through ignorance, not choice. So, yes - maybe the dealer is not malicious but someone at KC probably is, and the dealer, by definition, is in fact clueless.

 

[JejuSoul]

...The issue is that they keep resetting the BMS trying to update whatever software, and then they claim that the SOH is 100%...

...Sounds like a call to Kia Corporate is required because the dealership is either clueless or malicious..

I doubt it's malicious. More likely they have never done this before and are mere following their service guidelines.
The first thing they are told to do is update the software. That is what they do.
They are not told what the software update does, nor its side-effects.

The BMS update is actually a cold weather fix for the charge timer.
They will believe it must be a fix for car showing low range.

The BMS update will reset the deterioration counters to zero.
The car computer now believes there is no deterioration.
The mechanic can now show you that the car is fixed.

Given that you do know that this commonly happens, I suggest that you try to help them understand.
Calling them clueless or malicious isn't going to help.

It turns out I was wrong that the mechanics are merely reading guidelines.
It seems the guidelines are accurate but the mechanics don't read them.
I am still wary of blaming the mechanics though.
They probably learn by watching someone else do it, then just assume they know what is in the manual.

The manual for updating the BMS is here -
Service Action: Battery Management System (BMS) Logic Improvement (SA297)

Inform the customer that the BMS update will reset the adaptive learning values to default conditions. As a result, the displayed range/DTE (Distance to Empty) and charge times may be temporarily increased. It does not affect the actual range or battery charging time. These displayed values will gradually be relearned to reflect the actual battery condition with multiple drive and charge cycles performed above 50°F (10°C) from less than 20% SOC to more than 90% SOC.

Important: If the customer has any range concerns, capture all BMS data BEFORE applying the update.

The manual for checking the battery SOH is here -
Extracting BMS data for range concerns prior to performing updates

...For any customers experiencing a range concern with their vehicle, all Battery Management System (BMS) current data should be extracted and reviewed to verify the current battery State of Health (SOH) before performing any updates. Applying updates may clear current data requiring multiple drive cycles to re-learn and view accurate battery health...

-

 

[ksoul2084]

...The issue is that they keep resetting the BMS trying to update whatever software, and then they claim that the SOH is 100%...

...Sounds like a call to Kia Corporate is required because the dealership is either clueless or malicious..

I doubt it's malicious. More likely they have never done this before and are mere following their service guidelines.
The first thing they are told to do is update the software. That is what they do.
They are not told what the software update does, nor its side-effects.

The BMS update is actually a cold weather fix for the charge timer.
They will believe it must be a fix for car showing low range.

The BMS update will reset the deterioration counters to zero.
The car computer now believes there is no deterioration.
The mechanic can now show you that the car is fixed.

Given that you do know that this commonly happens, I suggest that you try to help them understand.
Calling them clueless or malicious isn't going to help.

It turns out I was wrong that the mechanics are merely reading guidelines.
It seems the guidelines are accurate but the mechanics don't read them.
I am still wary of blaming the mechanics though.
They probably learn by watching someone else do it, then just assume they know what is in the manual.

The manual for updating the BMS is here -
Service Action: Battery Management System (BMS) Logic Improvement (SA297)

Inform the customer that the BMS update will reset the adaptive learning values to default conditions. As a result, the displayed range/DTE (Distance to Empty) and charge times may be temporarily increased. It does not affect the actual range or battery charging time. These displayed values will gradually be relearned to reflect the actual battery condition with multiple drive and charge cycles performed above 50°F (10°C) from less than 20% SOC to more than 90% SOC.

Important: If the customer has any range concerns, capture all BMS data BEFORE applying the update.

The manual for checking the battery SOH is here -
Extracting BMS data for range concerns prior to performing updates

...For any customers experiencing a range concern with their vehicle, all Battery Management System (BMS) current data should be extracted and reviewed to verify the current battery State of Health (SOH) before performing any updates. Applying updates may clear current data requiring multiple drive cycles to re-learn and view accurate battery health...

-

I just wanted to say that your are an amazing contributor to this community, and thank-you for your efforts JeJuSoul!