Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

So with the 2017 on the horizon, and with 2017 the year of the "affordable" 200mi range EV car, the Kia Soul, Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, and etc, are going to look a bit less desirable. Granted, the phrase "if it works for you, then it doesn't matter" comes to mind, but what will happen with the Kia Soul EV? I am not going to lie when I say I would love a bit more range for this small EV, and since I just leased it, I have around 2+ years for the technology to evolve more, and the price to come down.

I wonder if Kia would allow for the battery pack to be upgraded in the future if anyone wants to upgrade it, for a price of course.

A salesman at the Kia of Portland, OR told me that the Kia EV training rep told them that Kia had designed the Soul EV to take an upgraded battery. I didn't ask about it he just volunteered it during our conversation. He new I had one Soul EV and was contemplating a second one. Whether they actually follow through with that or not is yet to be seen.

That would be nice if they do this. The other EVs are coming up fast and our EV will be a thing of the paste once Bolt, Model E, and a few others pop in 2017.

According to the norwegian Soul EV forum, a Kia Soul owner has been contacted by his Kia salesman informing him about Kia releasing Kia Soul EV this summer with higher battery capacity. The salesman did not know exactly how much larger the battery would be, but he also mentioned the new model of Kia Soul EV would have some of the same features as the Hyundai Ionic.

Also, according an article in one of Norways car magazines, Kia will come with better battery capacity from july this year.

I keep my fingers crossed.

For those of you who knows norwegian, here is the links to the forum and the news article:

http://elbilforum.no/forum/index.php/topic,31561.msg542928.html#msg542928

http://www.bilnorge.no/artikkel.php?aid=47184

I read those posts through Google translate, and its interesting. However I don't think it will be just a battery pack upgrade for us, as it will require a new car. For the US, it will possibly be the 2018 model. The 2017 model is already listed on Kia's site: http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/soul-ev/2017 and it appears to be the same model as before as seen here: http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/soul-ev/2017/charge.

Oh well... guess we need to wait till 2018. In my opinion, the Soul EV will remain and get a mild bump, while the new car (the "Niro EV") would get the longer range.

2018 worldwide expectations : http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=534#p4850

Birkeland said:

Owner of a 2015 KIA Soul Exclusive, Titanium Silver]

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I saw my first Titanium Silver KIA Soul EV today. They look great.

goev said:

Must everything that is shared here will be hard cold facts, Knut? It had become boring ...

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goev is great because he wrote the OVMS software; and Google Translate is great too.

SmoothJ said:

Oh well... guess we need to wait till 2018. In my opinion, the Soul EV will remain and get a mild bump, while the new car (the "Niro EV") would get the longer range.

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Here's my prediction for the Jeju EV expo in March. Kia will do one of the following.
1/ Introduce a Soul EV with upgraded battery
2/ Introduce a Niro EV
3/ Introduce a Soul EV with upgraded battery, and a Niro EV
4/ None of the above.

Time flies, and whatever happens its out of our hands at that point. I have what... 35 months left on this lease. So by then we are bound to have something newer/better after 2 years. Don't get me wrong, I still would be jealous if the Soul EV or the Niro EV comes out with more range, but I don't drive much anyway since I take the bus in to work. I charged the car on 1/1 to 100%, and I have not charged it since. I currently have 75% at the moment and 60 miles left according to the GOM with it being around 31 degrees F outside. I drive around 3-6 miles a day depending on stuff that I need to get done when I come home.

Last month however I drove a heck of lot more cause of the Holidays.

Anyway... yea I yap too much.... lol

If they do upgrade the battery on the EV do you think they would allow existing EV owners to replace their batteries to the upgraded version?

mallarij said:

If they do upgrade the battery on the EV do you think they would allow existing EV owners to replace their batteries to the upgraded version?

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Do I think so... maybe not. Do I hope so... crossing my fingers.

Apparently the Kia Soul EV 2018 gets 3 kW extra battery capacity.

http://www.goingelectric.de/forum/kia-soul-ev/kia-soul-ev-jetzt-noch-kaufen-t21466-40.html#p485590

A PDF can be downloaded with marketing information from Kia Germany in the above link (bad quality though)

Old battery:
- Capacity: 75 Ah (37,5*2)
- Weight battery: 277 kg
- Voltage: 360 V
- Number of cells: 192

New battery:
- Capacity: 80 Ah (40*2)
- Weight battery:: 290 kg
- Voltage: 375 V
- Number of cells: 200


Also low rolling resistance Michelin tires can be chosen. The price is 600 euro more than the old model.

360v - 192 cells or 96S2P
375v - 200 cells or 100S2P

The question is ... the Chademo and OBC will be changed ?
Or the final voltage is more low than the 192 cells package ?

Usually, when the builder increase voltage, it's for :
- speed
- torque
- less current on cells (less heat at heavy duty driving)
- less voltage for final stage of charger
- can charge more quickly on whole range than a less voltage pack

This is now also picked up by pushevs: http://pushevs.com/2017/03/08/2018-kia-soul-ev-gets-30-kwh-battery/

Even if it’s in German and blurry, the document below shows us the battery capacity increase from 27 to 30 kWh (usable) and also the new NEDC range, which increases from 212 to 250 km. This battery capacity upgrade will also allow the 2018 Kia Soul EV to finally surpass the 100 miles (161 km) EPA range barrier. Remember that the current Kia Soul EV only has a 93 miles (150 km) EPA range.

It’s still not clear if the 2018 Kia Soul EV will finally move from CHAdeMO to Combined Charging System (CCS) in Europe and USA, where this is the official fast charging standard.

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Am working though the details of this slowly, am editing this as I go.

The actual increase in usable battery energy capacity seems to be 11% (from 27kWh to 30kWh)

This is achieved by
Increasing the number of cells by 4% (from 196 to 200)
Improving the cell capacity by 7% (from 75Ah to 80Ah)

We don't know what the total energy capacity is but from these figures I don't think the have changed the ratio of unused capacity used as a buffer at the top. It seems reasonable to assume an 11% increase in total energy capacity. (from 30.5kWh to 33.8kWh)

The nominal voltage of the battery has increased because there are more cells in series. (from 360V = 3.75V * 96 to 375V = 3.75V * 100)
The nominal cell voltage is the same.

I don't know why the battery weight of the existing Soul EV uses a much heavier value than in the manual? Lots of media sites use the heavier weight 277kg for the existing model. It is shown on the kia specs here - http://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/soul-ev/specification/
All we can say is that the new pack might be 13kg heavier.

It lists an energy density of 205 Wh/kg. This cannot be for the pack. Perhaps it is for a single cell.

Available Discharge Power seems to be the same 90kW. I don't think we'll be getting any increase in speed.

The maximum charging rate for the OBC is 230V / 6.6kW / 27.5A
This is the same as the 2016 OBC version.

The maximum charging rate for DC fast charging is 62kW. same as before.

Below this line are the details for the existing Soul EV battery pack which I am using to compare the new specs.

--------------------------------------------

We know from the Service Manual that the existing battery has the following rated specs.


The actual specs for the existing battery are detailed by AVTA.
Vehicle Specifications and Testing Results


The existing Soul EV has a battery by SK Innovation.
It has 192 polymer pouch type cells, lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) cathode, .... Each 40Ah battery cell has energy density of 200 Wh/kg They are laid out in a series string of 96 sets of 2 parallel cells.
The rated capacity of the pack is 75Ah, whereas the measured total capacity is about 85Ah. Hence the rated capacity of each cell is 37.5Ah whereas actual is about 42Ah. The 2015 Soul EV battery pack is 30.5 kWh and weighs 202.8kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 150.4 Wh/kg

JejuSoul kind of related question.

i used a chademo station and charged at 355.1 V BUT 122.5 A average it was in this range from 25% to 70 %

I see a Leaf used the same chademo station but charged at 396 V but 78 A average at 46% (dont have other details to go on )

does the soul allow much more A vs leaf?

No, it only use 2 levels voltage limit from 0 to 84% (390v target) and from 84 to 94% (394v target).
The Chademo charger is command by the car in voltage and current (depend of the limit of current available on the chademo charger).



Nissan, BMW and Zoe don't handle good the high current.
Soul EV handle very good a high constant current.

cell and experience of factory is a point.
SK-Innovation is know as a power plant (stationnary and solar tank) experience in cells.

and so can handle more current because they know the needed for this (choice of material and vented closed storage).

The Soul EV uses SK Innovation batteries. 3 years ago they were much better than the rest. Better energy density, better at fast charging. But the rest seem to have caught up. The recent upgrades to all the other EVs were much greater percentage wise than the upgrade we are are discussing here.

The I oniq EV shares the faster charging capabilities of the Soul EV. But it uses much cheaper, lower energy density cells. Obviously SK has shared technology with LG because these two cars are both using the SK BMS. So I don't think it is the cell chemistry alone that allows faster charging. Another advantage that SK has is that it is the producer of the battery separators (look up SK LIBS). It might be this that has gone into the I oniq cells.

The German forum seems to suggest that the Soul EV will not be getting CCS this year. It will stay with Chademo. However Korea should be swapping to CCS this year. I will wait for the Jeju Forum next week to see what is really happening.

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Edit: added this comment a few hours later.

There's also a good comment by Digitaldrucker on the German forum comparing charging on the Soul EV and the I oniq (on the same thread as the one above which found the battery upgrade info. - Re: Kia Soul EV jetzt noch kaufen?

Digitaldrucke said:

The charging curve of the Soul EV is not similar to the I ONIQ Electric, but that of the I ONIQ Electric is similar to that of the Soul EV, because the I ONIQ is a further development of the Soul EV. The battery is slightly bigger, the car with its assistance systems even better ...

Of course, the loading curve is "even better", it can load up to a little more "higher" shifted SOC levels maximum - the absolutely identical max. Charging power in the peak, however, was already at the Soul EV end 2014 at 69 kW, even if the least know. At low SOC is already well over 60 kW (63-66 kW) loaded, the charging is basically no problem, at DC as at AC...

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JejuSoul said:

The Soul EV uses SK Innovation batteries. 3 years ago they were much better than the rest. Better energy density, better at fast charging. But the rest seem to have caught up. The recent upgrades to all the other EVs were much greater percentage wise than the upgrade we are are discussing here.

The I oniq EV shares the faster charging capabilities of the Soul EV. But it uses much cheaper, lower energy density cells. Obviously SK has shared technology with LG because these two cars are both using the SK BMS. So I don't think it is the cell chemistry alone that allows faster charging. Another advantage that SK has is that it is the producer of the battery separators (look up SK LIBS). It might be this that has gone into the I oniq cells.

The German forum seems to suggest that the Soul EV will not be getting CCS this year. It will stay with Chademo. However Korea should be swapping to CCS this year. I will wait for the Jeju Forum next week to see what is really happening.

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Good info!

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We now have confirmation of the increased battery size from the Jeju EV Expo.





Adds the additional data

5.0 km/kWh - energy economy (mixed) becomes 5.6 km/kWh
5.6 km/kWh - energy economy (urban area) becomes 6.0km /kWh
4.4 km/kWh - energy economy (highway) becomes 4.5 km/kWh

I am told that the higher nominal voltage makes driving and charging more efficient, because higher nominal voltage improves DC to AC efficiency.

Hence in Korea the driving distance on one charge has increased from 143km to 180km. (A 26% gain) This is in part due to a bigger battery (11%), part due to improved efficiency (12%), and maybe partly by removing the 80% charge limit (?). In the USA the EPA figure will become 112 miles.

From the earlier Austrian data from the blurry sheet above.
The actual increase in usable battery energy capacity seems to be 11% (from 27kWh to 30kWh)
This is achieved by
Increasing the number of cells by 4% (from 196 to 200)
Improving the cell capacity by 7% (from 75Ah to 80Ah)
The nominal voltage of the battery has increased because there are more cells in series. (from 360V = 3.75V * 96 to 375V = 3.75V * 100)

Edit: corrected numbers - Korean range of 2016 = 148km not 143km. EPA range of 2018 = 111miles not 112miles.

Nice, although just a 3kWh bump, looks like with the other efficiency improvements this will keep the Soul EV somewhat competitive