Soul Spy?

JejuSoul · Aug 3, 2019

langemand said:
...The calculation based on average deterioration has now been proved wrong by a Kia Soul EV 2015: This car has been tested to be at 40% SOH by Kia, and having min det = 0% and max det = 64.7%, before as well as after the test by Kia...

Yes. In this case the SOH as tested by Kia, is only based on the Maximum Deterioration. Not on the average of Minimum and Maximum Deterioration.

For battery packs where a single cell has failed this makes sense. It is irrelevant what the state of the 95 good cells are if a single cell has completely failed. A single failed cell means the entire pack fails. Unlike the T esla battery pack with thousands of cells, where the BMS software allows any single bad cell to be isolated.

warren55 · Aug 6, 2019

I tried out the new updated program yesterday, and sure enough my SOH went from 107% to 100%. Does it still go up to 110% with a new battery?

langemand · Aug 6, 2019

warren55 said:
I tried out the new updated program yesterday, and sure enough my SOH went from 107% to 100%. Does it still go up to 110% with a new battery?

The SOH display is now limited to displaying max 100 %, so that value is displayed for a new battery. I suppose this behaviour is like what an official Kia readout would display with a new battery.

You can take a look at battery.max_deterioration on the Battery Management System page, that value seem to indicate the deterioration from the original "over-capacity".

kimdavi · Aug 6, 2019

I tried the latest Soul SPY on my 2015 Kia Soul Ev ( 58,500miles / 94,146Km ). My SOH reports 51.5% on 8/4/19 . This revised calculated value makes sense.

Based on my recent charging session on 7/9/19, I was estimating around 53% capacity. I charged from 7% to 100% on Level 2 charger. It consumed 13.4Kw total power. Estimated using 13.4Kw/.93=14.4Kw, and 14.4Kw/27Kw=53%. capacity.

langemand · Aug 6, 2019

Would you buy the Soul EV Spy android app, if it was priced at $15 at google play store?

Is it worth it?

Why or why not?

What is the value of the app, if not $15?

What are the currently existing need-to-have features of the app?

What features are wanted, but missing from the app currently?

What are the pain points of the app (i.e. what sucks)?

Thanks in advance for your reply. The current "early available" BETA release that is currently available on google play store, will soon be upgraded to a paid app.

cixelsyd · Aug 6, 2019

langemand said:
Would you buy the Soul EV Spy android app, if it was priced at $15 at google play store?

Is it worth it?

Why or why not?

What is the value of the app, if not $15?

What are the currently existing need-to-have features of the app?

What features are wanted, but missing from the app currently?

What are the pain points of the app (i.e. what sucks)?

Thanks in advance for your reply. The current "early available" BETA release that is currently available on google play store, will soon be upgraded to a paid app.

Definitely worth buying. $15 is a fair price though you might get more takers with something like $9.99.

Need-to-have features are the SOH and the battery map, though perhaps if you are asking about say free/Pro edition features, maybe anything that displays raw data is "free" and anything that you are running calculations for (like SOH) is "Pro"?

Missing features would include things like graphs/reports on trends over time based on saved runs, perhaps some basic diagnostic functions ("cell 22 reads as 4.18V while all the other cells are reading 4.00V, this may indicate a faulty cell" or similar. Maybe an alert function of sorts when SOH is approaching warranty-trigger levels.

Pain points - lots of data on the pages, some of the descriptions are curt, and the divisions between the sections don't always make sense as an end user (why is SOH under Car Information and not under BMS, for example)

gday · Aug 6, 2019

I agree the price may do better at $9.99 (silly really but that's how things work) and yes it is well worth it. I am twiddling my thumbs waiting for my OBD bluetooth device but can hardly wait to try it out.

I will happily join in the conversation about features but sorry I can't add anything right now.

EVDee · Aug 6, 2019

Is it worth it?
1. To me? Sure.
2. To me to suggest to someone else? Depends.

Why or why not?
1. I just want to know the battery capacity % for warranty purposes, and this app is the only one that will give me that info.
2. Unless they were techy like myself, I don't think the interface is all that friendly to the average person.

What is the value of the app, if not $15?
For it's current state - I think $5 is fair.
$15-$20 would be fair if the app had additional functionality and a better interface.

What are the currently existing need-to-have features of the app?
Battery degradation - literally the reason for me using this app. (Assuming I understood the question correctly)

What features are wanted, but missing from the app currently?
Driving Mode - it'd be great if this app had a screen/mode where it acts as a HUD. Best example I can think of would be the Hybrid Assistant app which lets a user know if/when their brakes are applied, SOC at a glace, fuel consumed (curious if kWh consumed is possible?).

Trip logging/recording - another useful feature of the Hybrid Assistant app. Would be super handy to keep track of battery health over time.

"Check Engine" diagnostics. Not sure what else to call it, but it'd be nice if the app was able to tell a user about issues much like other OBD2 apps.

What are the pain points of the app (i.e. what sucks)?
User interface. I wish the info was displayed in a better way both visually but also so that it explained better what each data point is. That, or perhaps a built-in user guide which does this.

For me, coming from a 2nd generation Prius, a Hybrid Assistant type app would be what I'd pay for. I really enjoyed how it added valuable info at a glace when you were driving, and it helped protect the battery by keeping it cooler due to the app changing the parameters for the fan turning on. It also had a function to test battery capacity and could automatically track trips and log them for easy viewing in future.

notfred · Aug 8, 2019

I agree with the others about the price point I think $9.99 is going to be more popular than $15.

I think SOH is the essential info. If you were to offer that on the free version (maybe with max/min det and cell numbers( and on the paid version let people drill down in to the individual cell map and temperatures, plus all the other stuff.

I suggest removing the charger map - you aren't going to compete with PlugShare.

Missing features are the ability to set various items when working on the car yourself:
1) TPMS sensor IDs for changing tyres (I think we have the PIDs for this)
2) Electric Parking Brake when servicing the rear brakes (unknown PIDs)
3) Run the Water Pump when changing the coolant (unknown PIDs)

I agree the drop down menu style isn't the most user friendly, and the need to enable / disable the Bluetooth connection can be a little confusing. Unfortunately I'm another embedded C programmer rather than a UI designer, so I don't have any good suggestions for you there!

JeroenE · Aug 9, 2019

I've discovered Soul Spy only two weeks ago. Yesterday I got an update of the app. The SOH changed from 83% to 45%. I'm getting a new battery at the end of next week. I don't actually know the real SOH, but from the range I've left I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually that low.

As far as I know I've got a Konnwei OBDII dongle. Of course, with all the fake stuff out there you are never really sure, I guess. Unfortunately Soul Spy stops working sometimes. It is not responsive and I need to force quit the app and restart. Other times the dongle is not responsive. Soul Spy says dicsonnecting and connecting. Usually it'll work again after a few of these cycles. Other times I need to remove the dongle and place it back before the connection works again.

Even if the connection works again it'll take some time to get new values. I mainly drive with the "Energy and Power" screen. That will start with the speed, quickly followed by the battery energy. Then usually battery SOC and the remaining range (sometimes in reverse order). It can take several minutes before the fourth value is added.

Usually I'm streaming from my phone to the car stereo. If I'm not streaming (but listening to the radio like a savage) it still happens so it doesn't seem related to each other.

Does anybody else recognises this? Is there something I can do to avoid this?

Regarding a paid app: I think 15$ is way to steep, and I'm not even sure if I would buy it for 10$ . I would pay 5$ for an app that is specifically for my car/model.

A few points I'd like to change:

The charging location screen doesn't add anything you can't find in other apps. I'd use the Soul Spy app for gaining access to values that are not shown in the dash. I won't be using it to find a charger.

Tire info shows pressure in PSI, but I'd rather see bar. So 2.7 bar instead of 39 PSI.

A lot of data show a technical description. For example "obc.in_AC_A". This is shown on the Onboard Charger screen, so I'd loose the "obc." part. Perhaps name he fields something like "AC in A", "AC in V", "DC out A" (which doesn't exist now?), "DC out V" and so on. Or even better have 1 line for "AC in" with values like "228 V / 13 A". Same for a lot of other fields/screens like Battery Management System were the fields are just displayed in Uppercase/lowercase alphabetical order.

Switching between screens should be easier. Perhaps just like Torque Pro by swiping left or right? I would still like the drop down for quickly going to a specific screen.

Some values are weird or wrong. For example battery.heat1_temperature will show "206 C". I'm pretty sure my battery is not 206 degrees Celsius. Even if 206 would be Fahrenheit this would be far to high. I don't think I have this value in Torque. At least not in the dashes I found on this forum years ago (and which I never changed).

In the CSV log file the values sometimes are long. For example a battery cell could have a voltage of "3.74", but another will show "3.7600000000000002". Why not show that one as "3.76" and skip all the zero's? The main issue with this is that Excel will show both values quite different. I live in The Netherlands and we use a comma as the decimal separator. So my Excel thinks "3.76" is some kind of text (not a number!) but "3.7600000000000002" it will show as a number like "37.600.000.000.000.000" because it thinks the point is the thousands separator. I know this is mainly Excels automatic formatting that is not really helpful at all, but even so I think all those zero's and a 2 doesn't really add anything.

That said I do love the log file. Perhaps an option to get smaller files would be nice. I'm not sure I would want to log all the cell values, all the time for example.

When comparing to Torque I find Soul Spy a lot more nice to look at. The dashes of Torque with a lot of dials and so on are really "busy".

The main thing the app does now which is better than any other app is show a more realistic SOH.

JejuSoul · Aug 9, 2019

-
Jeroen - thanks for the update on your car.
From your numbers 'The SOH changed from 83% to 45%.'
It implies Max Deterioration 55%, Min Deterioration 0%.
This is almost identical to the car in the USA just a few comments above.
'That car has been tested to be at 40% SOH by Kia, and having min det = 0% and max det = 64.7%, before as well as after the test by Kia.'

These disastrous readings are very disturbing when considering the long term health of our batteries.
I will continue discussion of this on the Battery Ageing Model thread

Good luck getting your new battery. Please write again with the details and outcome of that process.

langemand · Aug 9, 2019

JeroenE said:
As far as I know I've got a Konnwei OBDII dongle. Of course, with all the fake stuff out there you are never really sure, I guess. Unfortunately Soul Spy stops working sometimes. It is not responsive and I need to force quit the app and restart. Other times the dongle is not responsive. Soul Spy says dicsonnecting and connecting. Usually it'll work again after a few of these cycles. Other times I need to remove the dongle and place it back before the connection works again.

Even if the connection works again it'll take some time to get new values. I mainly drive with the "Energy and Power" screen. That will start with the speed, quickly followed by the battery energy. Then usually battery SOC and the remaining range (sometimes in reverse order). It can take several minutes before the fourth value is added.

Usually I'm streaming from my phone to the car stereo. If I'm not streaming (but listening to the radio like a savage) it still happens so it doesn't seem related to each other.

Does anybody else recognises this? Is there something I can do to avoid this?

There has been more than 10 releases of the app during the past month, one of them unfortunately introduced new communication issues for the "old souls" (2014-2019). This should be fixed from BETA release 0.1.1-4284 (the same release that corrected the SOH calculation). If you still see communication issues with this or later versions, please email the soulspy.log2019XXXXXXXX.txt file to: [email protected]. I do not have access to the old model Soul EV for testing since I upgraded my car to the e-Soul 2020, so I need these files to find out what goes wrong.

I am wondering about the freeze requiring force close. I have never experienced anything like that for the two years I have been using different versions of this app, on different phone models. If you (or anybody else) experience this again, please email the souldata log files, along with a text explaining what you were doing; what happened; the phone model; the android version; which dongle you use, and which car model, trim and model year.

JeroenE said:
Some values are weird or wrong. For example battery.heat1_temperature will show "206 C". I'm pretty sure my battery is not 206 degrees Celsius. Even if 206 would be Fahrenheit this would be far to high. I don't think I have this value in Torque. At least not in the dashes I found on this forum years ago (and which I never changed).

Erroneous values is a likely result of the communication problems (others have reported weird DTC codes, which turned out to be caused by the communication issues). When there are communication issues, data values from the car are garbled, and values are calculated based on misplaced data from the car. If this (or similar weird data) are still displayed by the latest version, email me the soulspy.log file and mention which values you see being weird.

I was assuming that the latest release (BETA 0.1.1-4479) was working perfectly on Kia Soul EV 2014-2019 using KW902. If it doesn't, I will fix it (assuming it is not caused by a problem with your OBD-dongle).

Lelik · Aug 9, 2019

I finally got my battery replaced by Kia, they told me there is a facility in Texas where they reassemble batteries. My SOH is 110%, 123 miles range. I'm not sure what battery they put but based on SoulSpy same number of cells. Also the SoulsSpy shown SOH 81% but when Kia tested it was only 42%. I think the precise SOC and GOM are two indicators that it is time to make a visit to dealership to check the SOH.

langemand · Aug 9, 2019

Lelik said:
Also the SoulsSpy shown SOH 81% but when Kia tested it was only 42%.

During the months february to July, the released versions of Soul EV Spy displayed an erroneously high SOH for cars having a low value for min deterioration. As mentioned previously in this thread, the SOH calculation has been fixed in the latest BETA version, available from google play.

Lelik said:
I think the precise SOC and GOM are two indicators that it is time to make a visit to dealership to check the SOH.

For the one car with a very high max deterioration that I have received datafiles for, you seem to be correct: At 100% displayed SOC, the "prec SOC" value seem close to the SOH value. However, I will not jump to conclusions based on data from one car.

To all: Please email me your soulspy.log2019XXXXXXXX.txt and SoulData.2019XXXX_XXXX.csv files ([email protected]), if you want to help improve the SOH estimate made by the app. I believe the current SOH calculation gets pretty close to the SOH reported by Kia, for Soul EV model years 2014-2016, having the 27 kWh battery.

For later models having larger battery (as well as all other Kia and Hyundai EVs), I need datafiles from cars having less than 100% SOH, to find out how the BMS represents the SOH or deterioration value for these models.

Lelik · Aug 9, 2019

Sure I will send you files before and after the battery replacement.

JeroenE · Aug 9, 2019

JejuSoul said:
-
Jeroen - thanks for the update on your car.
From your numbers 'The SOH changed from 83% to 45%.'
It implies Max Deterioration 55%, Min Deterioration 0%.

Yes, the max is shown as 54.4% and the min is 0% in both Torque and Soul Spy.

As I said, I don't know the number that Kia thinks my battery is. Do we think it's something like 100 minus the max deteriotation?

langemand said:
To all: Please email me your soulspy.log2019XXXXXXXX.txt and SoulData.2019XXXX_XXXX.csv files ([email protected]), if you want to help improve the SOH estimate made by the app.

I don't mind helping, but I also don't like to give out to much personal information out to strangers on the internet. At least in the csv files is records the location of my car, and I don't want to share that information.

In the logfiles it shows things like this:

>o:AT MA
i:4F0 00 D0 EE 00 00 E5 C1 17
f:4F0 00 D0 F0 00 00 E5 C1 17
o: f:4F0 00 D0 F2 00 00 E5 C1 17
STOPPED

>o:AT AR
i:OK

>o:AT CRA 581
i:OK

>o:AT MA
i:581 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
o: f:STOPPED

>o:AT AR
i:OK

>o:AT CRA 200
i:OK

>o:AT MA
i:200 06 28 0C 10 00 FB 3C
f:200o: f: 06 28 0C 10 00 3B 3C
200 06 28 0C 10 00 7B 3C
STOPPED

>o:AT AR
i:OK

>o:AT CRA 050
i:OK

>o:AT MA
i:050 00 83 00 00
o: f:STOPPED

>o:AT AR
i:OK

>o:AT SH 7DF
i:OK

>o:AT CRA 7DE
i:OK

>o:21 06
i:7DE 10 22 61 06 00 1F 97 06
7DE 21 9F 5C 0E 02 00 1F 99
7DE 22 F9 A4 5C 0E 02 00 1F
7DE 23 8E B9 9F 5C 0E 02 00
7DE 24 1F 8A B2 94 5A 0E 02

>Status='Error running 21 05, response: CAN ERROR

>'
TimeOuts=0
Disconnected by ReadLoop. Timeouts ='0', status='Error running 21 05, response: CAN ERROR

>'
o:

But I'm not sure what everything means and if there is personal information in there.

I'll be driving the Soul again on Monday. I'll try to make notes when stuff happens. Sometimes I miss things because the green leds on the OBD dongle aren't very bright. I use these to see if everything is still working. If Soul Spy freezes the aren't flickering anymore.

JejuSoul · Aug 10, 2019

Lelik said:
... Also the SoulsSpy shown SOH 81% but when Kia tested it was only 42%...

This is a third car in the last week to show extreme battery failure.
From these numbers 'The SOH changed from 81% to 42%.'
It implies Max Deterioration 58%, Min Deterioration 0%.

All 3 cars have Min Deterioration = 0% and a very high Max Deterioration.
Min Deterioration = 0% is certainly incorrect.
For instance we know that in February 2016 the Min Deterioration on Jeroen's car was 8.5%.

The BMS software must stop calculating the Min Deterioration at some point.
The calculation for the SOH of the car ceases to be based on the overall state of the battery, and is now calculated purely on the worst cell.

Do any of you have data for when this change occurred? When did Min Deterioration drop to 0% ?

JeroenE · Aug 10, 2019

I haven't been keeping track of the min and max deterioration. Actually I haven't been keeping track at all

Once in a while I used torque to get the SOH value or take a look at the tire pressures.

Last May my car got a firmware upgrade (as far as I know the first one). I guess it happened then.

I didn't know these values were important...

langemand · Aug 10, 2019

JeroenE said:
As I said, I don't know the number that Kia thinks my battery is. Do we think it's something like 100 minus the max deteriotation?

In Soul EV Spy app it is now calculated as min(100.0, (totcap * (1-maxdet/100.0) / nomcap * 100.0)), where totcap = 30.5 kWh, and nomcap = 27 kWh.

JeroenE said:
I don't mind helping, but I also don't like to give out to much personal information out to strangers on the internet. At least in the csv files is records the location of my car, and I don't want to share that information.

Would it help if there was an option to share logfiles with the developer, in the app?

JeroenE said:
In the logfiles it shows things like this:

...

TimeOuts=0
Disconnected by ReadLoop. Timeouts ='0', status='Error running 21 05, response: CAN ERROR

>'
o:

CAN ERROR indicate a problem in the communication between the car and the dongle. This is usually a sign of a sub-par dongle. Since you did not include the initialization (the first part of the logspy file), I cannot say if you dongle looks genuine.

JeroenE · Aug 10, 2019

langemand said:
Would it help if there was an option to share logfiles with the developer, in the app?

That does not make you less a stranger :roll:

Perhaps some setting to skip the GPS location and vinnumber and stuff like that?

Of course I can edit the files, I will do that before I'll send them to you next week.

langemand said:
Since you did not include the initialization (the first part of the logspy file), I cannot say if you dongle looks genuine.

I don't have a logfile of Soul Spy right now, but I have a logfile of the ELM327 Identifier app:

Code:

Scan date=2019-08-08 15:07:25
Device name=KONNWEI OBDII
Device mac=00:1D:A5:16:33:15
Device Version (Declared)=ELM327 v1.5

Command	Version	Result
AT@1	1.0	OK
ATSPA6	1.0	OK
ATTPA6	1.0	OK
ATTP6	1.0	OK
ATSP00	1.3	OK
ATSP6	1.0	OK
ATAL	1.0	OK
ATNL	1.0	OK
ATAMC	2.0	KO
ATAMT20	2.0	KO
ATRA70	1.3	OK
ATSR70	1.2	OK
ATAR	1.2	OK
ATAT0	1.2	OK
ATAT2	1.2	OK
ATAT1	1.2	OK
ATBD	1.0	OK
ATBRT0F	1.2	OK
ATCAF0	1.0	OK
ATCAF1	1.0	OK
ATCEA04	1.4	OK
ATCERF1	2.2	KO
ATCEA	1.4	OK
ATCF00000111	1.0	OK
ATCF111	1.0	OK
ATCFC0	1.0	OK
ATCFC1	1.0	OK
ATCM00000111	1.0	OK
ATCM111	1.0	OK
ATCP18	1.0	OK
ATCRA7C0	1.3	OK
ATCRA000007C0	1.3	OK
ATCRA	1.4b	KO
ATCS	1.0	OK
ATCSM0	1.4b	KO
ATCSM1	1.4b	KO
ATCTM5	2.1	KO
ATCTM1	2.1	KO
ATCV0000	1.4	OK
ATD1	1.3	OK
ATD0	1.3	OK
ATDP	1.0	OK
ATDPN	1.0	OK
ATE0	1.0	OK
ATE1	1.0	OK
ATFCSD0430FF00	1.1	OK
ATFCSH000007B0	1.1	OK
ATFCSH7B0	1.1	OK
ATFCSM0	1.1	OK
ATFE	1.3a	OK
ATH0	1.0	OK
ATH1	1.0	OK
ATI	1.0	OK
ATIB10	1.0	OK
ATIB12	2.2	KO
ATIB15	2.2	KO
ATIB48	1.4	OK
ATIB96	1.0	OK
ATIFRS	1.2	OK
ATIFRH	1.2	OK
ATIFR0	1.2	OK
ATIFR2	1.2	OK
ATIFR1	1.2	OK
ATIFR6	2.2	KO
ATIFR5	2.2	KO
ATIFR4	2.2	KO
ATIGN	1.4	OK
ATIIA7A	1.2	OK
ATJS	1.3	OK
ATJE	1.3	OK
ATJHF0	1.4b	KO
ATJHF1	1.4b	KO
ATJTM5	1.4b	KO
ATJTM1	1.4b	KO
ATKW	1.3	OK
ATKW0	1.2	OK
ATKW1	1.2	OK
ATL0	1.0	OK
ATL1	1.0	OK
ATM1	1.0	OK
ATM0	1.0	OK
ATPPFFON	1.1	OK
ATPPFFOFF	1.1	OK
ATR0	1.0	OK
ATR1	1.0	OK
ATRV	1.0	OK
ATS0	1.3	OK
ATS1	1.3	OK
ATSDFF	1.4	OK
ATRD	1.4	OK
ATSH000007E0	2.0	KO
ATSHA848F1	1.0	OK
ATSH7B0	1.0	OK
ATST32	1.0	OK
ATSWFF	1.0	OK
ATTAF9	1.4	OK
ATV1	1.3	OK
ATV0	1.3	OK
ATWMC133F13E	1.0	OK
ATPC	1.0	OK
ATWS	1.0	OK
ATD	1.0	OK
ATZ	1.0	OK

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