Soul Spy?

[langemand]

That does not make you less a stranger :roll:

And yet you decided to install an app released by this stranger, an app which has unlimited access to send any information it collects, to anywhere on the internet

I am unable to help resolve the issues you experience, without access to the log-information from the Soul EV Spy app.

The log files does contain all data seen in the csv-file (except for GPS and DC-charger information). So this includes your car VIN (you know, the identifier clearly visible from outside in the front window by strangers passing by), and your car ODO, DTC-codes, ECU-names and technical stuff. And more, data values which I don't know what is. I do not know what you consider sensitive information. It's is your choice whether to share your data or not, and with whom. It is your decision because I have chosen not to make the app upload the data. That is not the common choice in apps, by the way.

Feel free to drop by for a cup of coffee, so I stop being a stranger to you, and you will trust me enough to let me try to help you.

Alternatively, get help to solve your issues from someone less strange than me. Or better yet, fix the app yourself, the code is here: https://github.com/langemand/SoulEVSpy

Perhaps another internet stranger who has a functioning KW902 and an old Soul will let us know if the issues you experiences are general, and maybe even dares to email me the soulspy.log files, so I have a chance of analyzing and correcting the issues you are experiencing.

Question: Do you turn the car completely on (hold brake pedal, then press the car on button), before connecting the app to the dongle? The internal systems in the car are unable to communicate with the dongle, when off. There is always power for the dongle, so dongle LEDs lighting up is not an indication of the car being on.

 

[ksoul2084]

Hi, I finally got a chance to install the new app off the Play Store (v0.1.1-4522) and have the following readings:

Max cell det pct: 38.8
Min cell det pct: 0.1

SOH %: 69.1

Is this the expected/correct value?

Thx.

 

[Elmil]

In Soul EV Spy app it is now calculated as min(100.0, (totcap * (1-maxdet/100.0) / nomcap * 100.0)), where totcap = 30.5 kWh, and nomcap = 27 kWh.

It has a long time bothered me that we never could catch the algorithm used in the workshop instrument. I have been playing around with my logged data and the actual readings from my service visits for the old 2015 Soul EV. I have a suggestion for an improvement of this algorithm.

SOH = 100 * ( K1 * (K2 - MaxDet/100) )

  where:
K1 = P1 / P2    // totcap,  nomcap in Ah
K2 = P3 * P4 / 10000

P1 = 80   // Max capacity (Ah) 
P2 = 75   // Nominal capacity (Ah)
P3 = 110  // Max SOH units when new
P4 = 95   // Battery SOC at max useable (100% displayed)

This algorithm is totally designed, based on the correlation between workshop printouts of SOH and my logged deterioration values from the same occations. The P3 and P4 constants may be a bit artificial, but there is a perfect match for all workshop printouts.

Below table shows the data. SOH(kWh) is output from current algo, SOH(Ah) is from my proposed algo and SOH(KDS) is the truth.

Max Det% SOH(kWh)	SOH(Ah)	SOH(KDS)
9,3		100,00	  100,00	  100
11,5	  99,97		99,20	   99,2
11,2	  100,00	  99,52	   99,5
9,5		100,00	  100,00	  100
11,0	  100,00	  99,73	   99,7
12,6	  98,73		98,03	   98,0
13,1	  98,16		97,49	   97,5

 

[langemand]

Unfortunately Soul Spy stops working sometimes. It is not responsive and I need to force quit the app and restart.

I experienced this myself today! Took the car for a 400 km drive, and when I stopped, the app was completely unresponsive. Neither the soulspy.log file or the SoulData file had been updated for 80 minutes.

I attached the debugger to the phone and found a deadlock error in the lock-handling. I have made a new release with a fix for that, which should be available on google play store within some hours.

 

[langemand]

SOH = 100 * ( K1 * (K2 - MaxDet/100) )

I have been thinking along the same lines. Your formula is the best correlation I have seen yet, with the limited dataset I have: It gets very close to the value found for a car with very high max deterioration reported, where we have the same max det documented before and after the Kia test:

max det %	Official Kia SOH %	Your formula
64,7	42,7	42,45

Maybe Jejusoul has an opinion?

PS: Out of curiosity: How come you have so many SOH readouts for your car? I never had one for the +3 years / 65000 kms I owned my Soul EV 2015.

 

[langemand]

Some values are weird or wrong. For example battery.heat1_temperature will show "206 C". I'm pretty sure my battery is not 206 degrees Celsius. Even if 206 would be Fahrenheit this would be far to high. I don't think I have this value in Torque. At least not in the dashes I found on this forum years ago (and which I never changed).

Erroneous values is a likely result of the communication problems (others have reported weird DTC codes, which turned out to be caused by the communication issues). When there are communication issues, data values from the car are garbled, and values are calculated based on misplaced data from the car. If this (or similar weird data) are still displayed by the latest version, email me the soulspy.log file and mention which values you see being weird.

I was assuming that the latest release (BETA 0.1.1-4479) was working perfectly on Kia Soul EV 2014-2019 using KW902. If it doesn't, I will fix it (assuming it is not caused by a problem with your OBD-dongle).

I have received files from another beta-tester having a Soul EV 2016, and sure enough, his car is also returning 206 for battery heater 1 and 2, so those values are not due to garbled communication, at least not in his car (he emailed me the log files, so I can see there are no communication glitches). Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted.

Can you confirm that your car does not have battery heaters?

In my Soul EV 2015, the values correlated well with ambient temperature (I never checked if they became higher during charging in winter temperatures).

 

[JejuSoul]

Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted. .

No.
I have no battery heater. The value returned is zero.
Actually I assume there is no sensor, so nothing at all is returned, but Torque has always shown zero.
I will go look what SoulSpy is showing. Yes. Soulspy shows 0C as expected.

----------------------------------------------

I will also go find my data for the official Kia SOH and check to see if Elmil's new formula is more accurate.
His car always had the most data available for this, because for many years mine always showed 100%.

A data point from my car gives the same 99.2% SOH for the new algorithm by Elmil, and for the Torque algorithm, and the official KIA reading.

A data point from ZuinigeRijder where neither the new algorithm by Elmil, or the Torque algorithm, match the official KIA reading.

-

 

[langemand]

Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted. .

No.
I have no battery heater. The value returned is zero.
Actually I assume there is no sensor, so nothing at all is returned, but Torque has always shown zero.
I will go look what SoulSpy is showing. Yes. Soulspy shows 0C as expected.
-

I suppose there is a difference between BMS version in different model years then. The car I received log-files for is a 2016 model, according to it's VIN. I don't know what model year JeroenE's car is.

 

[Oinq]

How can I know if I have battery heaters? I always assumed I do, but now, I'm not sure anymore.

 

[JeroenE]

And yet you decided to install an app released by this stranger, an app which has unlimited access to send any information it collects, to anywhere on the internet

Sure, I love living on the edge I do get your point, but my point is that I don't like to share some private information willingly. I know there are apps that will steal them (I don't think you do) but that is different than handing it over without questions.

So this includes your car VIN (you know, the identifier clearly visible from outside in the front window by strangers passing by)

I know, but my address is also posted on my house. That does not mean I intend to share it with everybody on the internet. There are even people who don't want to share their face on the internet even though that is (usually) visible in public as well.

Question: Do you turn the car completely on (hold brake pedal, then press the car on button), before connecting the app to the dongle? The internal systems in the car are unable to communicate with the dongle, when off. There is always power for the dongle, so dongle LEDs lighting up is not an indication of the car being on.

Usually I do it like this: get in, start the car, put on my seat-belt, insert the dongle in the OBD-connector, start Soul Spy. This is the order I did things this morning. Of course, when I get out to quick charge I don't remove the dongle. i have to power cycle the car though. First power off to open the loading bay, then start to use the radio, and a second power cycle to get the car in driving mode again after the quick charge is stopped.

This algorithm is totally designed, based on the correlation between workshop printouts of SOH and my logged deterioration values from the same occations. The P3 and P4 constants may be a bit artificial, but there is a perfect match for all workshop printouts.

Right, this calculation gives me a bit more SOH. Then it would be about 49% instead of 46% which Soul Spy says. I think it's still way better than the 83% from the "old" calculations.

I experienced this myself today! Took the car for a 400 km drive, and when I stopped, the app was completely unresponsive. Neither the soulspy.log file or the SoulData file had been updated for 80 minutes.

I attached the debugger to the phone and found a deadlock error in the lock-handling. I have made a new release with a fix for that, which should be available on google play store within some hours.

Thanks, I got it on sunday afternoon. Unfortunately in my case it hasn't helped. It still crashed 2 times. Fortunately I now know that there's an easy way to see this without taking quick notes while driving. In the event that Soul Spy is restarted I get a new .csv file. The same seems to go for the BT connection. When that fails (and is restarted) a new logfile is created.

I have received files from another beta-tester having a Soul EV 2016, and sure enough, his car is also returning 206 for battery heater 1 and 2, so those values are not due to garbled communication, at least not in his car (he emailed me the log files, so I can see there are no communication glitches). Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted.

Can you confirm that your car does not have battery heaters?

This begs the question how I can tell I have those or not? Being situated in The Netherlands with an almost identical climate of Denmark I would expect to have the same setup as you do.

I found the readout in Torque. There it's called "000_Battery Heater 1 Temperature" (and 2) . It's just not on my dashboards. Also the value is shown as -50C in Torque. If I'm not mistaken that's because Torque sees it as a signed integer and Soul Spy as unsigned integer.


I've sent you an email with edited logfiles. I hope you can still use them.

Edit: my Soul is from August 2014 (when it arrived in The Netherlands), I think that's model year 2015.

 

[langemand]

A data point from ZuinigeRijder where neither the new algorithm by Elmil, or the Torque algorithm, match the official KIA reading.
-

The difference may well be due to the max det not being the same at the time of the official SOH reading, according to ZuinigeRijder: "So I cannot compare exactly with the SOH readout (I did not measure with Torque just before I left the car at the garage)."

And Elmils formula is still closer to the official SOH than the current formulas used in Torque, and SoulEVSpy.

 

[langemand]

I experienced this myself today! Took the car for a 400 km drive, and when I stopped, the app was completely unresponsive. Neither the soulspy.log file or the SoulData file had been updated for 80 minutes.

I attached the debugger to the phone and found a deadlock error in the lock-handling. I have made a new release with a fix for that, which should be available on google play store within some hours.

Thanks, I got it on sunday afternoon.

No, you didn't. The release with this fix still isn't available from Google Play Store. Apparently I forgot to complete the release last night (I was kind of tired after all that driving). Since it isn't out anyway, I will take a second look to ensure I don't mess up something else with the fix, and see if I can find a way to trigger the hang more often in my car, so I can verify that the fix solves the problem, before releasing the fix.

Unfortunately in my case it hasn't helped. It still crashed 2 times.

You haven't reported crashes before, and google haven't recorded any for the past days. Do you mean that the app froze again, or is this another type of issue?

I've sent you an email with edited logfiles. I hope you can still use them.

Thanks, I will respond by email, after I have time to look at them.

Edit: my Soul is from August 2014 (when it arrived in The Netherlands), I think that's model year 2015.

If you will share the letter in the VIN that indicate the model year, we can see. Actually, if you let me know the first part of your VIN, before the serial number, I can see if the trim-code matches correlates with the cars having 206 for these values. The first part of the VIN encodes the make, model, trim level and manufactoring plant, as well as the model year).

This is the VIN from a 2015: "KNDJX3AE1F7005477". The "F" indicates that it's a 2015, it would be "E" if it was a 2014, and "G" for a 2016.

 

[JeroenE]

Sorry if I was unclear. The app stops doing anything and I have to force quit in Android and restart. Just now, on the way back this happened quite a few times.

Just for reference, what do you mean with a crash? Does the app completely disappear in that case? Or do I get some kind of "oops, I crashed. Please enter what you were doing and press on send" kind of screen?

My VIN starts with KNAJX81EFF7.

The SOH in Soul Spy has changed. It now says 51.7%.

The max deterioration is 54.2 and min is 0.

 

[langemand]

Sorry if I was unclear. The app stops doing anything and I have to force quit in Android and restart. Just now, on the way back this happened quite a few times.

No problem. I will find a way to reproduce the issue reliably, and release a fix ASAP.

Just for reference, what do you mean with a crash? Does the app completely disappear in that case? Or do I get some kind of "oops, I crashed. Please enter what you were doing and press on send" kind of screen?

It just disappears (and then Google receive a crash report, probably at the next start of the app). The "bluetooth connect" will be off when the app is restarted, and I believe it will restart on the DC chargers page, like when you have terminated it.

My VIN starts with KNAJX81EFF7.

My old soul VIN starts with KNAJX81EFF7, and it had sensible temperature values for battery heater 1 and 2.
Hmm - perhaps a BMS firmware update has broken those values?

The SOH in Soul Spy has changed. It now says 51.7%.

The max deterioration is 54.2 and min is 0.

I guess the max deterioration of your bad cell(s) has improved a bit. It is quite common for these values to fluctuate, as the BMS re-evaluate the battery state after a long drive, or a charge from low to high SOC, or after balancing the batteries.

Your car is still overdue for a battery replacement. Elmils new, improved formula puts the SOH at 53.7%, which is still way below 70%

 

[mysoulev]

It's been awhile since i last visited this topic, glad to see that Soulspy is alive again.

I have a 2019 Luxury in Canada.
just downloaded 0.1.1-4522
ELM327 OBD 2 Bluetooth V 1.5 Adapter from eBay
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/ELM327-OBD-...529591?hash=item3f66234eb7:g:1vIAAOSwykZZ6~lK

app seems working except i don't see SOH and TPMS info.

I will email the log file to langemand

thanks to all of you for all the hard work !

 

[langemand]

ELM327 OBD 2 Bluetooth V 1.5 Adapter from eBay
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/ELM327-OBD-...529591?hash=item3f66234eb7:g:1vIAAOSwykZZ6~lK

app seems working except i don't see SOH and TPMS info.

Just a warning: I have a dongle that looks like this, but is version ELM327 v2.1, and it doesn't work with the app at all!

 

[mysoulev]

ELM327 OBD 2 Bluetooth V 1.5 Adapter from eBay
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/ELM327-OBD-...529591?hash=item3f66234eb7:g:1vIAAOSwykZZ6~lK

app seems working except i don't see SOH and TPMS info.

Just a warning: I have a dongle that looks like this, but is version ELM327 v2.1, and it doesn't work with the app at all!

just sent you the log file.
i was worry too when i saw your earlier warning in the thread, glad to receive version 1.5
i avoided the version 2.1 (also on eBay) which was quit a bit cheaper.

 

[JeroenE]

My old soul VIN starts with KNAJX81EFF7, and it had sensible temperature values for battery heater 1 and 2.
Hmm - perhaps a BMS firmware update has broken those values?

I can only tell you my car had a firmware upgrade last May. I don't know exactly what was updated, as far as I know this is the first update that the car got.

The SOH in Soul Spy has changed. It now says 51.7%.

The max deterioration is 54.2 and min is 0.

I guess the max deterioration of your bad cell(s) has improved a bit. It is quite common for these values to fluctuate, as the BMS re-evaluate the battery state after a long drive, or a charge from low to high SOC, or after balancing the batteries.[/quote]I checked my screenshots and last week it was anywhere between 52.1% and 59.1%. Currently its 54.2%.

Your car is still overdue for a battery replacement. Elmils new, improved formula puts the SOH at 53.7%, which is still way below 70%

Yes, that's why I'm getting a new one this week.

I'll ask if I can have the SOH reports of the old and new battery.

 

[langemand]

I have released BETA 0.1.1-4527 on google play store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evranger.soulevspy

This should fix the issue of the app freezing up: Not communicating with the dongle, and not responding to UI. As far as I can tell, the problem was first introduced with BETA 0.1.1-4479 released on August 7.

Other recent improvements in the app during the past few months:
- Stability improvements
- The DC Charger list now links to both goingelectric.de page for chargestation, as well as google map routing to the chargestation.
- Tire pressure can be displayed in psi or bar, according to Settings
- Remove LDC page for models where LDC data is not read from the car
- Fix battery cell map to display current data immediately, when selected
- Setting for each of the 7 supported car models: Kia e-Soul 2020, Kia e-Niro, Kia Soul EV 2014-2019, Kia Ray EV, Hyundai Kona EV, Hyundai Ioniq EV, Hyundai BlueOn EV
- Add car model details for Hyundai Kona and Kia e-Niro
- SOH calculation corrected (had been displayed way too high since february release!)
- Attempts to improve results for "semi-bad" dongles
- VMCU, TPMS, BMS and OBC data for Ioniq, e-Soul, e-Niro and Kona EV
- Basic support for all Kia and Hyundai EVs
- and more

 

[JeroenE]

Thanks, I'll try this afternoon and let you know.