12V Battery Replacement ?

[FLKiaEV]

I don't mind paying a few hundred bucks for a lithium 12V accessory battery if it's one less thing I have to worry about down the road. I will purchase one of those battery boosters though to have with me just in case. In fact, the main reason I bought an EV was not for the other many benefits (such as lower cost of ownership, cleaner, quieter, etc) but because they are inherently more reliable than their ICE counterparts and this will help in that capacity.

On that note I'm also looking for a REAL (donut) spare tire instead of that repair goop and pump included with most vehicles nowadays. Doesn't do much good when you have a real blow-out! I know there probably isn't any room where it would normally go (because of the main battery cooling duct), but I will find a place to store it. The site where I found it says it doesn't fit the Soul EV, but I suspect that's because of the issue I just mentioned, not because it doesn't actually fit the axle. I'm still looking into this.

As for the video, I seem to remember that he does actually wait for the battery to be ready (he edits past this sometimes) before cranking the engine. Funny that the one that came out on top, the "Audew", is one of the cheapest ones he tested (I found it on Amazon for less than $70).

Russell

 

[IanL]

I have a spacesaver spare in my trunk (aka boot in the UK). See https://www.speakev.com/threads/kia-uk’s-advice-on-dealing-with-a-puncture.145003/#post-2776951 from post #9.

 

[FLKiaEV]

Thanks for the info, Ian. Even if it's not a perfect fit I would definitely feel much better having something more than some goo and a tire pump in the trunk. This showcases one of the issues manufacturers can run into when they are converting ICE vehicles into EVs: Rerouting the ventilation system some other way probably would have cost too much I guess. I'll figure something out.

Have you had any need to use the spare yet? If so, were there any issues with weight? Does the tire itself say about weight limits? Maybe I can ask a Kia dealership what they recommend. (But like you or someone else said in that other post, if you ever needed to use it, it would only be at slow speeds and only for a few miles. Just enough to get to a place to fix the tire.)

Russell
Kissimmee, Florida

 

[IanL]

I did a trial fit, but didn't drive it. I assume the ICE Soul uses the same brake diagnostics, so there should be no issue.

I think the main reason Kia does not provide a spare is to reduce the vehicle weight, to improve the range data.

 

[FLKiaEV]

Possibly, but it seems they're not the only ones who are getting rid of the "donut" spare. My guess is that it saves them a little bit of money on each car (it almost always comes down to money, right?). It could also be that, in the case of their EV anyway, that the cooling conduit is physically in the way and they didn't want to spend the resources (or $$$) to come up with a different route for that (that didn't block the tire stowage well), especially since this is a conversion from their ICE version and not designed from the ground up as an EV.

In the past, every car I've ever had that had a donut spare I replaced it with a full size spare as soon as I could, and now they don't even include that! Oh well. "Progress" I guess...

I just looked it up and the 2016 EV Soul is about 621 pounds (282 kilograms) heavier than the ICE version. This is a lot of weight, but not that much more than if you had several full grown adults in the car with you and/or carrying other items, so in my opinion it would be fine for short trips (which is exactly what the situation would be). I do see people driving their cars with one (or more!) donut spares on the highway at way too high speeds without a care in the world. But luckily I'm not THAT guy! LOL.

Russell
Kissimmee, FL

 

[IanL]

Well, my daughter has just bought a Kia Picanto (ICE) and that came with the pump+goo set and no spare. They try to maximise the emissions and miles/gal data both to enhance sales appeal, and (in the UK) to minimise the annual taxation, which is determined by that data.

 

[FLKiaEV]

I suppose, but would the weight savings on a donut spare really amount to anything worth mentioning? I mean, I don't see how even several tires could subtract even one mile or kilometer from its range. Personally, I think it's just to save $$$, but probably a combination of the two.

Russell
Kissimmee, FL

 

[FLKiaEV]

I ordered a Kia certified spare (with foam insert and needed tools) and it should be here by this Friday the 19th. Another user said that they were able to get it to fit in the bottom bay of the trunk, but only if they put it upside down (carefully) and removed the foam "tray". When I get it I'm going to see if I can find a way to put it in there without removing that tray, or at least maybe I can cut that tray in half so I have at least partial storage remaining. I'll let you know how it goes...

Russell
Kissimmee, Florida USA

 

[FLKiaEV]

Okay, so I have an update to both the 12V battery and the spare tire.

First, I ordered and installed a ReLion RB20 20Ah lithium battery along with two battery post adapters (because by default they come with m5 terminals), but I ran into a few problems which I eventually got solutions to.

The first problem was that even when they were tightened down all the way they still rotated a little bit which is not desirable when you're talking about the connection to the battery cables. So, I went to Home Depot and got some lock washers which did the trick. They prevented either of the adapters from rotating.

Then the second problem was that the post adapters are just slightly too narrow so that even when tightened all the way the battery cables don't stay on as tightly as they should. So, I got some adapters that slip over the battery post to make it thicker which I thought would fix the problem but unfortunately they actually make the post too thick. So I ended up cutting a strip of sheet metal and wrapping it around to make it slightly thicker and that worked perfectly.

These batteries, by the way, are much much smaller than the regular lead acid battery that's in there, so my next issue was figuring out how to secure the battery in there so it doesn't move around. Eventually used a ratcheting tether strap. That battery ain't going nowhere!

Next, I had purchased a spare tire kit from Kia and I have to say it is very nice! Comes with a hard foam insert that goes in the middle of the tire and holds your jack and all that kind of stuff which is included along with a few other tools that you would need to change the tire. But, as someone else on this thread pointed out, it's not a good idea to just throw a tire in there and leave it like that because if you were ever in an accident that tire could end up flying through the car at high speed.

So, on Amazon I bought a 250mm rod that is M8-1.25 and some compatible nuts and a "through" handle and some large washers, for the tire to rest on (the battery ventilation fan that's back there has a plastic housing and so I wouldn't trust it to support the full weight of that tire for a long long time). That washer allows the rod to support the tire so that it's not resting too hard on that plastic thing. So the rod screws into the hole that the regular tire repair kit thing screws into and then about seven or eight inches up you put one of the nuts a large washer and then another nut (tighten). If you have any Loctite Threadlocker, that will help prevent any of the nuts from coming unscrewed.

Then, the tire, if you rotate it just a little bit one of the lug nut holes will line up with that rod and you can just set it down on there. Then the plastic handle with the m8 - 1.25 nut in the center allows you to tighten the rim onto the rod. Works like a charm! Then the cover goes right on top of that.

The hard foam organizer that normally goes down in that area won't fit in there anymore of course. So, you have two choices. You can either put it on top of the folding cover and use it that way, or just don't use it anymore at all. To me, this is a sacrifice worth giving, though, because I'd rather have a real spare then some extra storage compartments.

 

[IanL]

That sounds good. I didn't think of using a lug hole to secure it. Now you've said it, it's obvious. :lol:

I'm going to do the same. Was the 250mm rod the right length, or did you have to shorten it?

Would be nice to see a pic.

 

[FLKiaEV]

Well, 250mm is about an inch and a half too long, but I didn't need to trim it because pokes through the hard foam insert (see images). I didn't want to trim the rod because sometimes that can make it hard to screw anything on the trimmed end. It worked out just fine though. Rods of this type seem to come in widely varying sizes, like 100mm (way too short), 250mm (a bit too long but not too bad) and 1m (way, WAY too long).

You can also see the washer to keep the tire from putting too much pressure on the black ventilation enclosure.

(You can see the top of the rod poking through)

I now keep the organizer on top and it doesn't look too bad. Just for the sake of completeness, here's how the battery install worked out:

It's actually TWO of those RB20 batteries, but only one is connected. I'm using the other to fill the space since they are so much smaller than the one they are replacing (and only weigh about 5 pounds too!). Long story short: The first one they sent was fine but I had casually mentioned to them in my review that it shipped with some red paste on the positive terminal so they offered to ship a replacement but to keep the original (these batteries are not cheap, either!)

Have a good one.

 

[IanL]

Thanks, that's very clear. I can get a 300mm or a 200mm, so I'll go for 300 and shorten it. The trick is to have a nut (all metal, not nyloc) already threaded on the shaft, before shortening. Then when you remove the nut, it straightens the distorted metal. Usually works.

Looks like you have a spare battery available now, in case the wired one goes flat, if you charge it occasionally.

 

[FLKiaEV]

Yeah, that's a good point about the nut. I wish I had bolt cutters because that would have worked well I think.

And it never hurts to have a spare battery. Nice thing is, a lithium will hold its charge up to 90% for a full year (at least these ones are claimed to). But it should last far longer than the stock one that came with the vehicle in any case. I even thought about connecting them in parallel so that it would be a 12V battery with twice the capacity, but that would be overkill...

The only "upgrade" I'm contemplating right now are seat covers, but I'd prefer to have ones specifically made for the vehicle rather than "universal" ones that tend to fit loose or just don't conform to the shape of the seats properly. Also, there's ventilation and airbags in the front seats, so that would need to be accommodated as well. I found a full car (both front seats and back 60/40 seats) set that is made specifically for this vehicle and is compatible with those features, but it is rather expensive: Almost $300US. It might be worth it though in the long run. Any ideas? The current seats are in new condition, but I want to keep them that way!

 

[IanL]

Well, the original battery is 45 Ah, and two of yours in parallel only amount to 40Ah, so perhaps it's a good idea.

I plan to shorten the rod with an angle grinder, and remove any burrs with a flap wheel.

My view on seat covers is unconventional. I've never found one as comfortable as the original, so I don't fit covers, and just enjoy what I have. The next owner can fit covers if he finds the appearance unsatisfactory.

 

[FLKiaEV]

I think it's 45Ah only because that's what they had on hand (I believe the ICE variant uses the same battery), not because it needs to be necessarily. The person I got the idea from on YouTube has been using the same 20Ah battery in his Fiat 500e for over 2 years with no issues. And really, the 12V battery is really only needed to activate the relays for the main traction battery and to act as a sort of buffer for the 12V accessories. I still may connect them in parallel just for the heck of it though, since I have the extra.

I'm still contemplating the seat covers. If this wasn't in such great condition I would probably do the same as you say, but it's practically new and I'd hate to wear the seats out more than I need to. There are much less expensive ones out there and I may go that route even though they don't fit perfectly (but are still quite nice in some cases).

 

[IanL]

I suppose the capacity would only matter if you run out of traction battery for whatever reason, and its night-time on an unlit road, etc, so yes, I'd parallel them.

 

[notfred]

The brake system runs on 12V, you can hear it pressuring when you open the driver's door. Yes, the high voltage traction battery will charge the 12V when the car is on, but I would be very wary of replacing the 12V with one that's smaller.

I thought the ICE Soul actually uses a slightly different 12V battery? i know that when I replaced mine I had to specify that it was for the Soul EV.

 

[FLKiaEV]

The brake system runs on the 12V system, but that system is powered by the high voltage system as long as the vehicle is on. It's like in an ICE car: Yes, if you're sitting parked with the engine off you can turn the headlights on and it will work because it's using power from the lead acid battery, but as soon as you turn the engine on you can actually remove the battery entirely from the vehicle and everything will still keep running (unless you have a bad alternator). In an EV it works in a similar way: When the vehicle is on all of the 12V accessories are powered by the DC-to-DC subsystem (480V->12V), using the battery as a sort of buffer.

The battery for the ICE version of the Soul is around 45, as is the one that came with the EV version if I remember correctly. Whether they are the exact same battery, I don't know. In any case, I'm not too worried about the 20Ah bit, as there are no high high cranking amps needed and the power requirements to engage the high voltage battery are fairly small. Plus, as I said, the YouTube guy has been using the same battery with his Fiat 500e electric vehicle for over 2 years with no issues and he's an auto mechanic who has torn down his battery pack and reassembled it (so I assume he knows a bit about electronics). I suppose if I needed to run just the headlights without a charged HV battery then, yeah, it would be nice to have 40Ah instead of 20. I still may connect them in parallel since my cost to do so would be minimal.

Thanks for the input everyone! Lots of things to consider.

 

[FLKiaEV]

Okay, so I took everyone's advice and connected the two lithium 12 volts in parallel:

Now I have a 12V battery with 40Ah instead of only 20. I ordered the two short (9 inch) positive and negative cables on Amazon for about $10. I guess I have a little extra peace of mind now.

Thanks!

 

[IanL]

Neat job