2016 Soul EV: Do you say a Good Buy? Or a Goodbye?

[johnnloki]

Currently own a 2004 Golf TDI (for 14 years), a 2016 Golf GTI (for 2.5 years) and a 2012 Chevy Volt (for 3.5 years).

TDI has been bulletproof, but it's definitely a 16 year old car. Lots of "Personality". She's now the winter ride.
GTI is great fun, but thirsty.
The Volt is great, if it weren't for the Chevy Quality. Battery doesn't really degrade, but something goes wrong every 9 months or so that stops the car from charging, or the engine from operating properly. A year back the motor mount broke... dealership says "Oh yeah, that's a common failure point on earlier 2010s Chevys".... da hell? The connection of the motor to the car fails.... commonly? Chevy gonna chevy, I guess.

We love owning an EV. The cost per mile driven, if it were a car that actually has the EV reliability as advertised, would be great.

Anyway, we're nearing the end of our Voltec warranty period, and aren't looking forward to owning the volt outside of the warranty, due to the every 9 month "Oh Right, I'm a Chevy.... CLUNK!!!!" pattern. We're loving the EV aspect of the car, but aren't sure what to buy next. We were originally thinking a Soul EV, but all these stories of degradation are pushing me away from KIA. 2020 Kia/Hyundai look great and all, but it's not in the budget, especially if there's issues with degradation.

As I understand it, EV batteries are just like cell phone batteries, in that, if you keep their SOC between 20 and 70% generally, they tend not to degrade. Go ahead and charge it right up to 100 when you know you'll need that extra range, but try to avoid it when you can. So then, the true daily range of an EV is usually 50% of stated range.... and if you live where there's a real winter, and you drive on the Highway (I am a yes to both of those) then true daily range is actually 33% of the stated advertised range.

Is this charging methodology common for these cars with consistently dying batteries? I am starting to lean towards an off lease Prius Prime with all the stories of battery problems that I'm seeing.

 

[notfred]

You are always going to see the problem posts, and the owners who are happy busy driving rather than posting about it.

I got my 2016 in September 2015 and I usually charge to 80% rather than 100%. There are a couple of days when I have to go out in the evening across town that I will charge to 100%. Last time I checked, my SOH was registering 96%.

I would be wary of highway commutes - you need to keep the speed down (105kph max) as the Soul is as aerodynamic as a brick and higher speeds use a lot more battery power. Occasional highway use is fine - one of my weekly trips across town is on the highway.

Yes winter causes a range hit - about 1/3 in my case, but the advantage is that the battery is being kept nice and cool.

 

[johnnloki]

I have been around car forums for a while, and in general, the most vocal group online are definitely either going to be the enthusiasts of a brand singing the praises, or those having significant issues.

Of course, highway mileage in an EV is always going to be worse than city mileage, but a drag coefficient of .35 isn't abysmal, and neither is 30 or 31 MPG highway in the petrol powered 2016 Soul. Not great, but not apocalyptic.

The early Leafs all have range anxiety fuelled range issues and problems, many of them are associated with people not understanding how to keep a rechargeable battery healthy (i.e., with many needing say only 30% of KWH capacity for their commute, but still charging it from 70% up to 100% every single night, unplugging it to go to the store, using 4% charge, plugging it back in, etc.) This was the early leafs, and the early EV owners. I had hoped that this common theme would go away.

My cousin owns a 2015 (I think) Soul EV and doesn't recommend ownership, but did not follow my advice on charging maintenance.

I understand that this is commonplace for those who do not research, but it seems that when I look around, very few people say "I have owned my ___________ EV for 5 or 6 years, and it has only lost 5 to 10% of total capacity." That is with the exception of the Volts (where the owner gets access only to charge capacity of between 10-80%) and the Tesla S60s, that are actually software locked 75 kwhs.

The Niro EV is probably what I'd most like, but I really need to see more examples of Korean EV owners who are fully satisfied with their cars. (We almost bought the Niro hybrid instead of the GTI, but it was missing just a bit of oomph to get onto the highway.... I always said that if you could make the Niro drive like the Volt, it'd be a no brainer... but nobody really bought the Niro PHEV and very few were made, unfortunately, and there are none on the used market)

 

[jray3]

I will be a good test case for your good buy, as I'm entering my second month of 2016 SOUL EV ownership, purchased off-lease with 24k miles. My first modern EV (I have several antiques and converted EVs) was a 2012 Mitsubishi I-MiEV that didn't exceed 20% degradation until after 100,000 miles (with one onboard charger failure, and zero other problems). As my daily i-MiEV use averaged 48 miles on a 62 mile rated vehicle, or 77% discharge, reaching 20% degradation crimped my style, and I replaced the battery with a low mileage collision-salvage unit at 106,000 miles. That i-MiEV is happily running with full range now in spousal use, as a new job brought me a minimum round trip commute of 150 miles four days per week, which is basically eight 80% discharges per week, plus a few shallower discharges, or at least 30,000 miles per year. I fully recharge at work, at home, and DCFC on occasion. I'm optimistic that the SOUL EV will fulfill this mission at least until 100,000 miles, or to 2022, and am keeping an eye open for 30 kWh salvage batteries. I am experimenting with winter heating techniques and am building 4 kWh supplemental battery modules for range extension. (Salvaged LEAF modules to be sacrificially deep cycled daily, reducing the SOUL depth of discharge.)

The key to EV success is to live within your budget and balance the variables. If your cell phone never runs out of charge, you have the requisite qualities, and neither will your EV.

BTW, I hadn't followed the Volt closely, being untrusting of GM quality in 2011 and unwilling to pay the dealers' $12k second sticker, but had read that the VOLT was GM's most reliable vehicle, ever, bar none. Do you think that your declining reliability is typical?

 

[AnOnyMzB]

The key factor is how you drive and where you drive. I got my 2016 Soul EV, brand new in November 2015. I drove at freeway speeds (65+mph) in the HOV Lanes daily, 70 miles round-trip (no traffic in HOV Lanes). Charged the battery to 100% daily (because I needed the full charge for my daily commute). By the time I was getting home, I was lucky to be in the high 30% battery range. By early 2018, I already had significant enough battery degradation that Kia authorized at warranty battery replacement.
Since then, because of California laws, I've lost HOV access and sit in slow moving stop and go traffic, daily, for 70 miles round-trip. Rarely get to even 65mph. Plus I've learned to better control my acceleration and better use the regenerative braking. My drive is still 70 miles. I still charge to 100% everyday, but I'm coming home to nearly 50% battery range. Since the battery replacement and my commute and style changes, I've not noticed ANY reduction in battery capacity. In fact, it appears to be doing better than ever.

 

[johnnloki]

Always been a Honda Toyota and VW household. Never domestic, and never again.

Ultimately a 5 year old Chevy Volt is still a 5 year old Chevy. They just aren't built to last. The dealerships around me with Volt cert techs don't speak highly of them, and their voltec techs are generally busy.

I think PHEV is probably the ideal solution for most people, and am sad to see that the best selling phev isn't being improved on, and isn't even being made anymore. 2nd best selling phev option is probably the i3, but their battery/motor interaction management is ridiculous and runs it down and keeps it charging at near empty, really punishing the battery and degrading it, with a relatively low ev range that requires a full charge. Bad long term owned vehicle. Mitsu Outlander PHEV? I dunno....

 

[biffidum]

If you are prepared to add the daily thought cycle of how will what I am doing now affect my battery then go ahead. If you want to drive and not worry, don't bother. I don't care what others say, ALL batteries die eventually and the $15,000 price tag is the hot potato you don't want to end up with. Lease a new one.

Other than battery degradation, we love our Soul and have had 0 problems with it for 113,000km.

 

[EVDee]

Why resurrect a 2 year old dead thread when you've already started your own topic, only to say basically the same thing/not add anything of value to this thread?

Can we not? Thanks.

 

[MassDeduction]

Always been a Honda Toyota and VW household. Never domestic, and never again.

Ultimately a 5 year old Chevy Volt is still a 5 year old Chevy. They just aren't built to last. The dealerships around me with Volt cert techs don't speak highly of them, and their voltec techs are generally busy.

I think PHEV is probably the ideal solution for most people, and am sad to see that the best selling phev isn't being improved on, and isn't even being made anymore. 2nd best selling phev option is probably the i3, but their battery/motor interaction management is ridiculous and runs it down and keeps it charging at near empty, really punishing the battery and degrading it, with a relatively low ev range that requires a full charge. Bad long term owned vehicle. Mitsu Outlander PHEV? I dunno....

It's possible to "code" the i3 to turn on the motor with the battery as high as 75%. It's called engaging "Hold" mode. Hold mode is available by default in Europe, it's only in North America that you have to turn it on. And only because it's an important part of the legal distinction between a PHEV and a range-extended EV in some jurisdictions (California being a particularly important one).

Speaking of which, both the Chevy Volt and the BMW i3 are not PHEVs. They're technically range-extended EVs. The distinction is that the engines don't turn the wheels directly, they only produce electricity for the motor when there's sufficient need. In practical terms, range-extended EVs typically offer far greater range than PHEVs. Most PHEVs offer a maximum of something like 45-ish km on a full charge in full electric (I've seen as low as 25 km and as high as 55 km). Whereas early range-extended EVs started as low as 55 km for the first-gen Volt, but the later Volts went as high as 85 km, despite extremely large SOC buffers. The upcoming range-extended variant of the Mazda MX-30 is expected to go about 160 km (100 miles) on pure electric, and the i3 is rated for 203 km on pure electric, numbers no PHEV can come close to touching.

To your point that PHEVs are a good option for most people, I think there's some truth in that. My mom and dad actually swapped from a 2016 Soul EV to a Volt in part because they had some range anxiety with their 2016 Soul EV. Would they still have range anxiety had they instead upgraded to a modern Soul EV with its 64 kWh battery size and 400-ish km on a charge? Probably not, but the second-hand Volt was a *heck* of a lot cheaper, and was longer in the body which was important for their needs (transporting bicycle boxes in the back of the car with the seats down). But, they have come to really appreciate the security the range extender offers them. There's absolutely zero range anxiety for them, and they can do trips of any length with tremendous convenience.

I would prefer an EV with a large battery over a range-extended EV. I rarely go on long trips, and I'd probably actually enjoy strategizing when/where to stop to recharge if I did go on a long trip. But that's not them, and that's likely not a lot of people.

 

[Matt98765]

Electronics tech opinion on the state of things with EVs.

With current technology we have taken several steps backwards in using EV cars, it is all about the longevity of that high voltage battery that inevitably fails.
We need much cheaper better batteries or better source of electric power for the wonderful high tech EV car.

When I was much younger remember having the motor replaced on my gas car for $700 and going down the road for many more years, you simple cannot do that with a modern EV when the batteries fail your expensive automobile is likly headed to a junk yard as it cost 12,000 to 18,000 for a replacement battery.

Do your homework, read reviews and so on.

Matt

 

[IanL]

That would be true of early EVs, but just does not hold water with later models. And not only Tesla - My 2018 SoulEV is still above 100% SOH, and that is typical of later vehicles. My 3 year old FIAT 500e is also over 100% of the useable capacity.

I recharge at home, and save a fortune compared to buying fuel for a combustion vehicle.

 

[Akovia]

yeah, and I had to adjust valve lash clearance every 10k miles on my VW microbus. Grind valve seats at 30k in Fords. Replace rings and bearings at around 50k for all. Brake pads with every set of tires. Cars were crap back then.

 

[JejuSoul]

...
I recharge at home, and save a fortune compared to buying fuel for a combustion vehicle.

Yes. I do as well.
I have 2 2015 Soul EVs. Both are running fine. I intend to keep at least one for another ten years.
I have never paid for any expensive maintenance. Just tyres, wipers and 12V batteries.
My cars have never needed overnight repairs.
Everything has been done on the same day. Including battery replacement.

BUT - this is far from typical.
We both live on small islands. Our cars have never been back to the mainland since we bought them.
For both of us the battery warranty will expire next year.
I think the resale value of old EVs, especially the ones out of warranty is set to decline even more sharply next year.
I don't intend to sell so this doesn't matter, but as above my use case is far from typical.

 

[spidermonkey]

That would be true of early EVs, but just does not hold water with later models. And not only Tesla - My 2018 SoulEV is still above 100% SOH, and that is typical of later vehicles. My 3 year old FIAT 500e is also over 100% of the useable capacity.

I recharge at home, and save a fortune compared to buying fuel for a combustion vehicle.

Yes, this. We have a 14KW solar array and there are few things as satisfying as having your car parked in the garage with the blue charge indicator lights blinking away and then walking over to the meter and watching it roll backwards. Thank you Sun. Having the electric car and charging at home saves quite a bit of money. For what its worth, my cars battery held its own for almost five years before its rapid decline.

 

[spidermonkey]

Yes. I do as well.
I have 2 2015 Soul EVs. Both are running fine. I intend to keep at least one for another ten years.
I have never paid for any expensive maintenance. Just tyres, wipers and 12V batteries.
My cars have never needed overnight repairs.
Everything has been done on the same day. Including battery replacement.

BUT - this is far from typical.
We both live on small islands. Our cars have never been back to the mainland since we bought them.
For both of us the battery warranty will expire next year.
I think the resale value of old EVs, especially the ones out of warranty is set to decline even more sharply next year.
I don't intend to sell so this doesn't matter, but as above my use case is far from typical.

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I feel the same way. When I compare all the repairs I have had to do to our other vehicles, the Soul wins every time. I havnt had to replace the 12v battery and I bought a set of winter wheels and tires, but other than wiper blades and one burned out headlamp, all I have had to do is wash it. It doesnt leak oil, it doesnt stink up the garage when I start it and its quiet, the studded snow tires make more noise than the car. It really is the nicest car I have ever owned.

 

[IanL]

.... It really is the nicest car I have ever owned.

Ditto