Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

[2016Electric]

Hi all,

Well, I've gone and signed the papers and it's official - a new 2016 Soul EV is on the way!

Now for the fun part... I've been looking into EVSE and have settled on something for home.
Now I just have to figure out what to do about the longer trips where I will have 240v available at my destination (friends). The included charger is 12A Level 1, so very very slow (6km per hour, I've heard - maybe just over 1.1kw per hour after overhead).
I've considered building an OPENEVSE (I have an electronics background and this project looks quite simple).

Alternatively, I've also seen the evse-upgrade online, which provides you with an "upgraded" factory charger capable of 120/240v, 12A operation. I've been studying the J1772 protocol, and pinouts for the connector-to-vehicle. As I see it (and I could be wrong), the EVSE ONLY controls the current via signalling (duty cycle of the 1000hz square wave). I assume the onboard charger, then, is smart and watches for line voltage (120 vs. 240) and acts accordingly... I cannot see how this info would also be in the signalling. This makes intuitive sense to me as well, in case of any voltage drop, or slight local differences in voltage, etc. The charger would have to be able to adjust for that...

Fine... So the "upgraded" factory charger doesn't have to do anything to the signal. Aside from changing the cord, what exactly do they do to the EVSE to upgrade it then?
I was thinking about that, because I assume the factory included EVSE in much of Europe is running on 208v or 230v, no? 120v seems mostly isolated to NA. In the interest of mass production efficiency, I very much doubt there is much difference between the two models, internally.

I am wondering what the difference is between those (European) chargers, and ours in NA? Power supply to the controller, or something else? Relays?

If anyone has any info here, I'd love to hear about it...

 

[JimGord]

Just buy a 240 V 40AMP (32 Amp Continuous) Level 2 and save yourself a lot of risk and grief.

The price keeps coming down on these units (ClipperCreek in USA or SunCountryHighway in Canada)

 

[2016Electric]

Just buy a 240 V 40AMP (32 Amp Continuous) Level 2 and save yourself a lot of risk and grief.

The price keeps coming down on these units (ClipperCreek in USA or SunCountryHighway in Canada)

Hi,

Thanks - I intend to, but that's not the point, and wasn't my question. My question was technical. I wanted to know more about how the device works, and what differentiates it from its higher voltage sibling.

 

[JeroenE]

I have a European one, on the back it says the input has to be AC220V-240V 10A 50Hz.

In the past when you bought a computer the power supply usually had a switch you could set to 120V or 220V. If you accidentally put the switch on 120V and turned the computer on the power supply would fail and release the magic smoke.

Nowadays you can use the power supply on any voltage between 110V and 240V. It will automatically detect the voltage and adjust accordingly.

I would assume the same thing is built into the box for charging the Kia.

It looks like it is: here are the insides of my ICCB. It says it'll accept between AC 100V and 277V and turn it into DC 12V. My guess is that the power supply will be the same for the USA version.

On one sticker it does say "ICCB EU". It looks like this sticker is on a relay. I would guess that they would have used the same relays for both the 120V and 240V switching. But I can't guarantee that obviously.

If they really turn the charger into 240V 12A then they do something else because default is is only 10A. So the charging will be a bit faster than before.

Depending on the amps available at your friends a portable EVSE might be a better idea. If they have enough power (and their installation is also rated accordingly!) you could charge at a maximum of 6,6kW which is much faster than the supplied charger is capable of. That way you should be able to charge the car in about 4 till 5 hours if it was almost empty.

 

[notfred]

Interesting! I'm tempted to open my Canadian one up to see and compare, but I want to wait till I get my Level 2 installed in case I drop something in to it

Yes, those 2 lumps on the left will be the line relays, see how they have the current sensing loops after them? That block on the right as you say will be the voltage converter to run the electronics that generate the pulse train. I was expecting to see a little PIC microcontroller or similar to look at the output of the current loops, generate pulse train etc. That little connector on the right edge looks like a programming / debugging connector for it, maybe the microcontroller is on the back of the board?

 

[2016Electric]

I have a European one, on the back it says the input has to be AC220V-240V 10A 50Hz.

In the past when you bought a computer the power supply usually had a switch you could set to 120V or 220V. If you accidentally put the switch on 120V and turned the computer on the power supply would fail and release the magic smoke.

Nowadays you can use the power supply on any voltage between 110V and 240V. It will automatically detect the voltage and adjust accordingly.

I would assume the same thing is built into the box for charging the Kia.

It looks like it is: here are the insides of my ICCB. It says it'll accept between AC 100V and 277V and turn it into DC 12V. My guess is that the power supply will be the same for the USA version.

On one sticker it does say "ICCB EU". It looks like this sticker is on a relay. I would guess that they would have used the same relays for both the 120V and 240V switching. But I can't guarantee that obviously.

If they really turn the charger into 240V 12A then they do something else because default is is only 10A. So the charging will be a bit faster than before.

Depending on the amps available at your friends a portable EVSE might be a better idea. If they have enough power (and their installation is also rated accordingly!) you could charge at a maximum of 6,6kW which is much faster than the supplied charger is capable of. That way you should be able to charge the car in about 4 till 5 hours if it was almost empty.

Very interesting..

Yeah, will certainly need a high capacity charger, and this is largely academic. I'm always curious about these sorts of things.
I looked up wiring for The Netherlands, and apparently your neutral wire is blue? L1 (live) is brown, and the other one (green as usual for us too) is ground.
As I guessed, the power supply is universal, so the difference must be something else. I assume the current loops that notfred mentioned are there to detect charging current for the indicator lights on the front side.
As for the relays, are they powered by low voltage on the control side, and just have a pass-through on the contact (line) side?

Perhaps there is a difference with the GFCI portion of circuit?

 

[JeroenE]

Interesting! I'm tempted to open my Canadian one up to see and compare, but I want to wait till I get my Level 2 installed in case I drop something in to it

I've got a public L2 charger on the street parking places like hundred meter from here. So I have a plan B

I was expecting to see a little PIC microcontroller or similar to look at the output of the current loops, generate pulse train etc. That little connector on the right edge looks like a programming / debugging connector for it, maybe the microcontroller is on the back of the board?

I did not think to look under the board

I'm not an electronics expert but do you really need a microcontroller for the PWM signal? The box will always tell the car that it can use 10A (at least in European chargers). So I think maybe some nifty electronics is enough to generate such a signal and controller won't be needed?

I looked up wiring for The Netherlands, and apparently your neutral wire is blue? L1 (live) is brown, and the other one (green as usual for us too) is ground.

Actually earth/ground is green/yellow. L1 is brown and L2 and L3 are black and grey (or sometimes brown too). However this is only for cable going from the power company into the the circuit/junction box. Once the phases are into your house the rest of the circuits (to each room, outlet, etcetera) will only use brown, blue and green/yellow. And smaller black ones for switching wires. You can't easily buy grey cables at the DIY stores.

Perhaps there is a difference with the GFCI portion of circuit?

In Europe there is usually no need for GCFI coils as that is mostly integrated into the circuit/junction box and does not need to be detected by an appliance. However, it does not matter if the box will detect this too.

My car is charging with the ICCB now; I'll probably open it up tomorrow to check the underside of the PCB.

 

[notfred]

Those current loops are the GFCI loops, current going out on one must match current coming back on the other else there is a Ground Fault. I think it is part of the standard and that's why I think you need a microcontroller. The EVSE does a startup test and drives all 3 LEDs before settling down.

 

[2016Electric]

Those current loops are the GFCI loops, current going out on one must match current coming back on the other else there is a Ground Fault. I think it is part of the standard and that's why I think you need a microcontroller. The EVSE does a startup test and drives all 3 LEDs before settling down.

Ah that makes sense - any differential would indicate "loss" somewhere. Simple yet effective.
So the difference must be somewhere else.

 

[JeroenE]

Those current loops are the GFCI loops, current going out on one must match current coming back on the other else there is a Ground Fault. I think it is part of the standard and that's why I think you need a microcontroller. The EVSE does a startup test and drives all 3 LEDs before settling down.

I don't think it is part of the standard. I don't have ithe standard though (you have to pay to get it).

Another guy has posted images of his commercial available EVSE calles ev-box. That one is sold over here, you see them a lot. It looks like they are also sold elsewhere, but because it's Dutch company I'm guessing they are not very common elsewhere. If you click on the link you can see a bit more about them.

That EVSE does not have GFCI coils. It only has a controller, contactor/relay, power supply and wire connectors. Here is the original product the other guy bought second-hand:

And this is the inside:

You can find more pictures here, but all the rest don't show the green cable to the Type 1 connector.

In Europe most circuits have their own GFCI so it is not needed for appliances to do this on their own. But because there is probably none or very little difference between the EU and USA versions they are there anyway.

So, I opened up my ICCB again and this time took the time to remove the PCB and check the other side. As you predicted here is a microprocessor in the Kia ICCB too. I have updated my album with some pictures from the other side. Actually I removed the album and created another because for some reason I couldn't add pictures. Probably me, I never used imgur before.

The PCB is coated, I'm assuming for protection against moisture. This makes it impossible to read the make and model of the bigger components. On the cpu they have put a large sticker anyway. Because I removed the PCB I could see the writing on the side of the big black components and it is a relay. The writing is a little bit unclear, but I hope you can read it anyway. It days it is a 240V relay. I'm sure it'll switch 120V just fine, but perhaps they use different ones in the standard USA version?

 

[2016Electric]

Those current loops are the GFCI loops, current going out on one must match current coming back on the other else there is a Ground Fault. I think it is part of the standard and that's why I think you need a microcontroller. The EVSE does a startup test and drives all 3 LEDs before settling down.

I don't think it is part of the standard. I don't have ithe standard though (you have to pay to get it).

Another guy has posted images of his commercial available EVSE calles ev-box. That one is sold over here, you see them a lot. It looks like they are also sold elsewhere, but because it's Dutch company I'm guessing they are not very common elsewhere. If you click on the link you can see a bit more about them.

That EVSE does not have GFCI coils. It only has a controller, contactor/relay, power supply and wire connectors. Here is the original product the other guy bought second-hand:

And this is the inside:

You can find more pictures here, but all the rest don't show the green cable to the Type 1 connector.

In Europe most circuits have their own GFCI so it is not needed for appliances to do this on their own. But because there is probably none or very little difference between the EU and USA versions they are there anyway.

So, I opened up my ICCB again and this time took the time to remove the PCB and check the other side. As you predicted here is a microprocessor in the Kia ICCB too. I have updated my album with some pictures from the other side. Actually I removed the album and created another because for some reason I couldn't add pictures. Probably me, I never used imgur before.

The PCB is coated, I'm assuming for protection against moisture. This makes it impossible to read the make and model of the bigger components. On the cpu they have put a large sticker anyway. Because I removed the PCB I could see the writing on the side of the big black components and it is a relay. The writing is a little bit unclear, but I hope you can read it anyway. It days it is a 240V relay. I'm sure it'll switch 120V just fine, but perhaps they use different ones in the standard USA version?

Hey that's fantastic, thanks for all the detailed images. I'll have a look inside mine and see how it compares. Maybe the only difference IS the mains plug, and perhaps the duty cycle for the amperage (10A for you, 12A for us). I'll let you know once I have a moment to open it up.

 

[2016Electric]

Another thing I am still wondering..

How does the onboard charger decide between level 1 vs. level 2 charging? It's my understanding that the EVSE simply provides the amperage available via the square wave duty cycle...
Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

 

[JeroenE]

Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

We only do level 2 charging here. Level 1 charging is at 120V and we don't have that readily available.

I think the car sees the difference in voltage and acts accordingly.

 

[2016Electric]

Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

We only do level 2 charging here. Level 1 charging is at 120V and we don't have that readily available.

I think the car sees the difference in voltage and acts accordingly.

Makes sense - hard to do L1 when you don't have 120v available.
I would think the onboard charger would have to be able to adjust for voltage differences / changes, as line voltage could sag or spike at any time.

 

[GizmoEV]

Another thing I am still wondering..

How does the onboard charger decide between level 1 vs. level 2 charging? It's my understanding that the EVSE simply provides the amperage available via the square wave duty cycle...
Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

I don't have a direct answer to your question but I do know when I was attempting to charge with my generator that my EVSEUpgrade Panasonic EVSE thought it was on 240V based on the blink code (20 blinks) indicating the programmed amperage available. My generator only puts out 120V. When I attempted to charge the generator got overloaded so the OBC backed off, the generator recovered, the OBC ramped up until the generator overloaded, and the cycle continued. This indicated to me that the OBC will charge at more than 12A on 120V. I got my EVSEUpgrade EVSE updated to allow 16A on 120V and the KIA Soul EV does in fact charge at more than 12A on 120V. I do wish EVSEUpgrade allowed programming upto 20A on 120V because this would be great when at an RV park and only 120V 30A is available.

FWIW, EVSEUpgrade says that the KIA EVSE is only programmable for 12A on either 120V or 240V. The Panasonic EVSE that came with the LEAFs doesn't have this limitation. The EVSEUpgraded version is quite simple to program from the user's perspective. Maybe you could pick up an original one and modify it yourself.

 

[2016Electric]

Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

We only do level 2 charging here. Level 1 charging is at 120V and we don't have that readily available.

I think the car sees the difference in voltage and acts accordingly.

Makes sense - hard to do L1 when you don't have 120v available.
I would think the onboard charger would have to be able to adjust for voltage differences / changes, as line voltage could sag or spike at any time.

I opened my ICCB up to have a look. Same as yours from what I could tell (power supply, relays), but a different white sticker on the second relay (says NAS instead of EU). Relays are still 12v coil.
Also, the board is red, and has a different revision number.

On the images you posted of your ICCB (back side of board), I noticed the relays are connected to a resistor and some portion of the control system. I wondered if that might be voltage sensing... perhaps that resistor is different for the 120/240 units...? Also, perhaps the control runs a different firmware in your ICCB... (actually, we know it does for sure, as yours is 10A and mine is 12)... but I wonder if duty cycle is the only difference in that firmware (or if it also includes something to do with sensing line voltage).

Makes me wonder what exactly EVSEupgrade does, aside from change the cord. I suppose there is a chance they change some components, but which ones??? since the power supply is universal... and the relays operate on 12v... I also don't see how they could reprogram the units, as the board is likely proprietary. Hmm.

Don't exactly want to try hooking it up to 240v to test it though, to avoid as you say... smoke. LOL

 

[Firehead]

Hi Everyone, my first post here. I'm in north America and I use m'y Kia EVSE stock at 240V 12A whitout any modification.

Whitout Smoke, lol.

I simply made an adapter cable of oven to L5-20R. Not politicly correct but Working well.

I made another welder cable to l5-20r.

Here in north America we work whit 2 Line of 120 V monophase . So the EVSE receive 120 V on each Line. At 12 A the Power is 2880 watts. The soul EV is reloaded in 10hours. Better than 24 hours at 120v 12A (1440W)


Note that the l5-20r is designed for 120V 20A, so it can handle 2400 watts. Here's the workaround. But it work well whitout heat.

 

[SoulEV2016]

Another thing I am still wondering..
It's my understanding that the EVSE simply provides the amperage available via the square wave duty cycle...

Yes AND allow or not the main contactor AND verify the car (diode circuit + GND/Earth connexion).
http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=434&view=unread#p7443

 

[pthack]

So can I just wire up a converter/adapter that wires the hot leads from a 14-50 or 6-30 to the 2 blades in a 5-15R socket?
Preserving the Green ground wire...

After all, it's still only 12A...

Pete.

 

[2016Electric]

Hey PTHACK,

For an answer to your question, check out my other post in the trickle charger forum posted today.