Low Range and Battery Capacity

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Moridin2

New member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
4
I have a 2015 Soul EV+ with about 37,500 miles on it. I've been pretty happy with the car for what it is, but have had some issues lately. The OBC failed sometime late last year I think (I don't have my records with me at the moment), and the indicated range noticeably dropped off after that. It has dropped again recently, and I have been regularly seeing 60 to 62 miles on the GOM. Over the weekend, I tried to take a 60ish mile round trip (almost all freeway). Probably averaged about 72MPH on the way out, but stuck to about 65MPH on the way back. By the time we got close to the house, the GOM went to '- - -'. I think I plugged in the car at about 6% SOC as indicated on the center stack display under the battery settings.

I own a eMotorwerks Juicebox smart L2 EVSE that measures and records the kWh it sends back into the car. I installed it about 4 months ago (after the OBC failure - I was using the L1 cordset before). The Juicebox reported that it when it charged the vehicle (to 100% as reported on my car) it only put in 19.3 kWh and it took 2 hours and 51 minutes to do so. I didn't check the power going back in to the car during the charge, but every time I've looked at it on the Juicebox app, the EVSE is usually supplying about 6.8kW. So, it would seem that the accounting/sensor setup on the EVSE is relatively accurate.

I called Folsom Lake Kia and brought the car in. They told me they plugged into the car later that day and it showed 78% state of charge (which is low for merely traveling 10 miles from 100% SOC) and 100% SOH. They performed a BMS firmware update which reset the GOM, so it showed 93 miles when I picked the vehicle up yesterday. I drove the car to work and back home later that day. I then took it out later that night to drain it almost all the way down, so I could measure how much would go back in after the BMS update. The GOM went to '- - -' at about 6 miles and 10% SOC. I continued to drive the car until the turtle light on the dash illuminated, which came on at about 5% SOC as shown by the center stack screen. I pulled into the garage and plugged in. When I woke up this morning, I checked the Juicebox app to see how much energy had been put back in. It says 20.1 kWh and 3 hours and 23 minutes to full charge (which also includes some automatic climate preconditioning, so its probably more like 3 hours). It seems like if the battery has actually degraded that much, I'm close to a warranty replacement. The 20.1kWh from the EVSE also includes parasitic losses through the OBC and other systems, so the actually input back into the battery is probably a bit less.

I've seen a few threads indicating that some people have had some similar issues, but I'm not sure if anyone else has had any input from Kia yet? Has anyone had a similar problem and the BMS still shows a high SOH value? Is there someone at Kia that I can contact to go above the dealer for faster resolution? I don't think the dealership techs are knowledgeable enough yet to handle this sort of thing if it has to do with improper SOC estimation or energy accounting across the modules. Anyone have anything else that they think I can look at/due to figure this thing out? I really wish I had access to the GDS system I used to work with at my old job (I used to work in a battery test lab).
 
I would suggest plugging it in to Torque Pro and taking a look at the battery that way. It definitely sounds like you have battery problems.

Reports are that Kia has replaced batteries on cars that have had battery problems. I think the dealer techs are just calling the Kia technical line with most issues on these vehicles, so I don't know that there is much of an escalation route.
 
Thanks for the response notfred.

From what I can find, Torque Pro is only for Android? Does anyone have any suggestions on what OBD hardware interface to get for that? Has anyone tried running Torque Pro through an Android emulation (Blue Stacks) on a Windows based laptop? And, are the CAN definitions for the Soul EV built into Torque Pro, or do I need to get those somewhere else?
 
http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=711&p=6934#p6934
and
http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=471&start=350#p7021
 
Moridin2 said:
...Has anyone tried running Torque Pro through an Android emulation (Blue Stacks) on a Windows based laptop? ...
Try Car Scanner Pro and a OBDLink MX Bluetooth. One user has tested this and has stated it is mostly working.

There are quite a few threads with cars that have had battery replacement after similar problems as yours. Kia will do a check of the BMS, if the SOH is less than 70% you will get a warranty battery replacement.


Here in Korea this car SOH = 62.7% just got the battery replacement.

 
I am having this same issue .... Low Range and Battery Capacity. Below is a link that shows a graph from the ChargePoint site of the charging of my 2015 Soul EV battery over the past two weeks. I charge on a ChargePoint 240 volt 32 amp charger. The charging typically starts at 10% and the car will take a charge for about 2.5 to 3 hours before stopping the charge and declaring itself at 100% charged. I typically get between 12.5 - 13 kWh from each full charge (from 10% to 100% full charge). The link below shows the last two weeks of charging. The lines on the right represent 5kWh, 10kWh, 15kWh, and 20kWh at the top range. All my charges over this period have come in well below the 15kWh line (usually 12.5 - 13 kWh total). My 2015 has 12K miles.

https://tinyurl.com/y8aqxfg4

I have contacted Kia Consumer relations and they said I will need to take my car to the nearest EV dealer which is in Southern California which is 390 miles from my home in the greater Phoenix, AZ area. Any thoughts on how to best get my car to the dealer and second, if this trip will prove productive given the fairly hefty investment it will take to get my car to the dealer in Southern California?

Also, will an OBD and Torque Pro provide State of Health (SOH) of my car's battery?

p.s. I have only had the vehicle about a month. It has sat on the lot the past year and I believe it has the original OBC and no update to the BMS software. Would a BMS software update even help in this instance?

Curt
 
curtalva said:
... Would a BMS software update even help in this instance?...
The BMS update corrects a bug that occurs on very cold winter days in Quebec. It will not help cars in warmer climates. In fact it will only confuse the Kia techs. The BMS gets reset during the update, which resets the SOH to 100%. They will assume they have 'fixed' your battery, whereas in reality they have just hidden the actual deterioration number.
Here in Jeju the BMS software update is not offered, so no such confusion occurs.

curtalva said:
... will an OBD and Torque Pro provide State of Health (SOH) of my car's battery?...
Yes. Unless the BMS has been reset, in which case it will show 100%, as explained above.
Note - we actually see values for Min and Max deterioration of the 96 cells. In all the cars we have tested so far the average of these two values equals the SOH.
 
Interesting development..... After driving all day on Friday with 2015 Soul EV I charged as normal overnight on my 240V, 32-amp level 2 charger. Starting at 14% It charged from 11pm Friday night until 2:45 am Saturday morning. The car always reads 100% after an overnight charge. The charge provided 12.4 kWh is typical of what I get on an overnight charge. I unplugged the car Saturday morning around 9am. After sitting approx. 24 hours (not driven at all) I got in the car this morning (Sunday morning) and the SOC is 80% and the GOM reads 81 miles!! What's up with that???

I am now (Sunday morning) charging again starting at the 80%. I am hoping that I will actually be able to put another 20% (3 kWh??) into the car on top of the 12.4 kWh that it received on Friday night. This would be new territory for me with this car.

As I have stated before the car sat on a lot for over a year before I purchased it. And in the month I have owned it I have pretty much determined that I dealing with a battery with a capacity of about 15kWh. Could some of the battery cells actually come back to life? Or is this all just a mirage? Is there a way to explain why the car would read 80% SOC twenty four hours after being unplugged from a full charge?
 
Yes, a dead cell.
Rise 4,15v ... but drop to 3,90v instead of staying at 4,15v like all 95 others cells (96S2P battery pack).
 
Charged my car this morning after discovering that the SOC mysteriously was reading 80%. The GOM read 81 miles. After charging for about 45-60 minutes charging stopped. The SOC reads 100% now and only 2.4 kWh was added. I would think that indicates that the car's battery capacity is 12kWH given that it took 2.4kWh to go from 80% to 100%, however it took 12.4 kWh during the previous charge. I have not driven the car since the previous charge. Or it would seem the battery lost 2.4 kWH.
 
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The readings from your car strongly suggest something is wrong with the battery / BMS.
It would really help if you could get hold of an OBD2 device and post the data here.

Almost all of us here are using android phones with Torque Pro to do this.
There is no one to support you with iPhone or windows.
But if you want to give it a try here are some links.

recommended obd2 adapter?

and

Setting up Torque to show BMS data

For an IOS user try Engine Link and a LELink - Bluetooth Low Energy OBD2 Adapter. No one has yet tested that this works.
For a Windows phone user try Car Scanner Pro and a OBDLink MX Bluetooth One user has tested this and has stated it is mostly working.
Please report back what you find.
 
Since the last time I posted I picked up an Android tablet (Lenovo Tab 4 8") and a Vgate iCar2 WiFi. I got the PID/CAN ID stuff setup into Torque Pro - thanks to everyone that has done work on that. Having had to work with OEMs in my previous job to try and get that info, I have a little insight into how valuable it is to them. It always seemed like I was trying to ask for the keys to Fort Knox... and that was me trying to help them.

So, it looks like I'm having issues with cell #1 and a little with cell #2. Cell #1 seems to be a bit more resistive than the rest, and is probably driving heat into cell #2 to accelerate its degradation. I did a couple of full throttle bursts on the freeway this morning on my way to work (after charging to 100% last night) and saw some decent voltage sag in cell #1. Cell deviation got as high as 0.14V during those runs. The opposite (voltage increase) happens under regen as well. Saw a peak voltage of 4.22V in cell #1 during max regen early in the drive.

As far as max deterioration goes, it shows 34.1% in cell #1. Minimum deterioration is 18.4% in cell #68.

The other deterioration and SOH metrics are as follows:
004_CALC_AVRDET(%): 26.25
004_CALC_AVRDET for SOH(%) : -16.25
004_CALC AVRDET for SOH Divided 100: -0.1625
004_CALC Lost of SOH(kWh): -4.3875
004_CALC MaxMin DET: 52.5
004_CALC SOH Battery in 100 ratio(%): 83.75
004_CALC SOH Battery in kWh(kWh): 22.6125

Keep in mind that the BMS was reset last Wednesday when the new firmware was uploaded. I'm not sure if it has fully learned all the deterioration values yet, or if that will take some more driving to do.

I can upload some screenshots later today if need be. I'm also working on a better way to view/interpret the data than just with Excel. A friend of mine suggested this: https://www.efianalytics.com/MegaLogViewerHD/ I've used plenty of other datalog viewing programs before (AEM, Motec, Race-Tech, etc...), and its unfortunate that CSV files can't be easily imported into them for analysis. If anyone has any other ideas, I'm definitely open to trying them out.
 
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