Need help with this decision, please?

[Cobberprof]

I'm new to this forum, though have been reading topics over the past couple of weeks to try to be informed about the Soul EV. I decided to join this group because I really need some wisdom from others who live with this vehicle. Our situation is bizarre and complicated, but that's typical for how we choose to live. So here's the situation. We live in Fargo, ND. In general, the only Soul EV vehicles we've seen advertised have been in Chicago or some other location 500+ miles away. About 10 days ago, I stumbled on a dealer ad for a 2015 Soul EV+ with 79 miles - never been titled/registered - in Minneapolis, MN (about 3.5 hours away). It was put into service on 7/5/2016 by a Kia dealership (but again, not titled). The dealership in Minneapolis is asking $23,995 - and this does qualify for the $7500 rebate. We have not talked about leasing - I need to follow up on that, because I know that most people on this forum do indeed lease, and after reading quite a bit on here, I now understand why. So I'll ask about that. As an FYI - we just sold our 2008 Prius with 250,000 miles on it (never needed a single service) and we also have a 2013 Chevy Volt with 75,000 miles on it (also has not needed any service). Our commute to work and back is about 30 miles roundtrip. We have a Level 2 charger installed in our garage for the Volt. The Kia dealership is putting the Soul EV through certification and testing the battery to determine SOH. It came up from NV, but it appears to have been indoors the whole time (showroom car, maybe?). It's currently being held for us while they do the testing/certification - I signed the purchase agreement last weekend, so it's "ours" until/unless we back out before they ship it up to us.

Okay, all of that said, here's the rub. We'd love to add an EV to replace the Prius we've sold, and I like the size of the Soul - not so tiny, yet not big. Sadly, Fargo has limited support for electric vehicles in terms of service centers. We'd be limited to the Leaf or the Bolt if we wanted to go EV based on what the service centers can work with in our area. There is also the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV option here in Fargo, but we really did want to go all-electric. So...the price for this 2015 Kia, after tax rebate, is really quite good for a car that is fairly new. Yep, the warranty is now down by two years. But from what I can tell, the closest Kia that will be able to service it for non-warranty work is down in Minneapolis - our local Kia won't touch it because it's an EV, even for non EV maintenance. If warranty work is needed, Kia will have to transport it to an authorized EV service center - and from what I can tell, those are currently in NY and GA and maybe one or two other locations (I called the customer care line and they told me that they know require a new certification process and most of the former service centers no longer qualify). According the them, they'll covered transport to the warrany dealer if work is needed. But we'd obviously be without our car for a long time, as transporting it to NY or GA will take some time.

I'm trying to lay this out as honestly as possible, but I'll add that I'm really smitten with this car, and I'm afraid that I can talk myself into thinking that for this price, it's work the risk that we might have to ship this off for service. I do know that several of you on here have had battery issues and/or have needed the OBC replaced.

I just need help evaluating this offer, and how insane it would be to buy a car that can't be serviced locally. Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!

 

[JejuSoul]

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The Soul EV is a great car - but it is not suitable for all situations. I don't think you should get it.
If you were a genius DIY mechanic then yes, but if so I don't think you would have bothered asking here.

For me the Soul EV is fantastic. I have had the car for 3 1/2 years, driven 50,000km and still have 100% SOH.
I have only had 1 issue, a failed OBC, nothing else has required fixing.
The local Kia garage is a 5 minute walk from my house. The local mechanic is an EV expert.

My car does not have a battery heater. In my climate it would never be needed.
But in Fargo, ND you would. The probability that your car does not have a battery heater is high, because you mention it originally came from NV.
Without a battery heater, do not buy the car.

I would not want to buy an EV that has sat unused for 2 years without testing it first.
If you are willing to take the risk of buying this car, then make the effort to travel and test it.

 

[Cobberprof]

Hmmm...very much appreciate the honest response. Gives me much to think about.

My husband actually is a genius DIY mechanic. Actually, he's a chemist who moonlights as a master electrician (wired out entire house when we remodeled), builds wind turbines and solar panels, is a midrange and long range target shooting champion, and recently, has disassembled and reassembled (and then sold) five early-2000s Audis just for fun. But that said, he won't risk voiding the warranty of a new car, so there will be no DIY until such a car is out of that warranty.

The dealership does offer a 5-day, 500-mile guarantee. So that's an option. They have been testing the vehicle since it arrived at their dealership last Tuesday in order to give it Kia certification. I was planning to ask tomorrow about the OBC and BMS software updates as well. Now I will add battery heater to that list. I haven't seen that mentioned in any of the posts I've read from Canada - is that a common mod?

I really appreciate your thoughts - thank you for responding to my post!

 

[JejuSoul]

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The battery heater is not something you can add afterwards. You either have it or you don't.
Cars sent to California don't have it. Cars sent to Canada or the NE USA do.
Make sure you ask very clearly and specifically, because the technicians are unlikely to know what it is.
It is an electrical plate inside the battery pack itself.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the cabin heater, or the cooling system for the motor.

BTW you also want a heat pump. Less important than the battery heater but greatly adds to range in the winter.
My car has a heat pump, but does not have the battery heater. Having one does not always imply having the other.

 

[Cobberprof]

Got it. No battery pack and no heat pump = no purchase. I'll find out about those items today. Guessing you are correct that this one will have neither.

So our MN dealers bring up AZ and CA vehicles that are not equipped for our frozen tundra, and a buyer who does not research before buying gets stuck with a car that performs extremely poorly or not at all for 5 months of the year.....

I wish we could get better support for EVs up here.

 

[JejuSoul]

... AZ and CA vehicles are not equipped for our frozen tundra,...

Yes. I think your winter is probably like Quebec. Here's what you will see on cold mornings, if the battery heater hasn't been working.

Current Temp - 19C but the nighttime minimum was -23C. The battery is still -22C.
Range down to 67km. A warning message - "low battery temperature, limited power"





Perhaps if you have a heated garage this will never happen.

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Looking at a study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory : -
PDF: Addressing the Impact of Temperature Extremes on Large Format Li-Ion Batteries for Vehicle Application
It seems very cold temperatures can also permanently damage your battery.

Charging is much more challenging as dendrite can grow and reduce life of battery and compromise safety

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[Cobberprof]

They've done all of the updates (BMS and OBC included), and ran the SOH. I'm not quite sure how to interpret the SOH info, though - help?

I did get verification that the vehicle does have a heat pump. But does not have a battery heater. Our garage is heated, but it wouldn't make sense to take it to work on very cold days where it would sit outside for 5+ hours.

I don't know how to upload an image, so here is a link to the SOH report:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jk_dqPtByNwOToLRhXDo9VyGeRV4eXPU/view?usp=sharing

Hopefully that works.

 

[JejuSoul]

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That report shows that there is nothing wrong. But it is not a reliable measure.
The BMS update that they did resets all the counters back to zero.
They reset the car back to how it looked when it came out of the factory, and then show you a perfect reading.
There is nothing evil in them doing this. They do not know that a reset is part of the update process.

The only way to test the actual range of the car is to drive it.

 

[Cobberprof]

I'm guessing this car has never even been driven to it's full range, since it doesn't even have 100 miles on it. So this might be a dumb question...but how do you drive it to the full range without getting stranded somewhere? Is there any major (and reliable) signal that goes off when the car is imminently in need of charging? I could drive it around our block when it gets to that point, I suppose... :lol:

We asked them to knock another $2000 off. After the rebate, this car would cost us $14,500, still has 8 years on the powertrain and EV system and three years on the rest. We wouldn't want to use it on the really cold days in January...but for the other 11 months of the year, maybe it's worth the risk? We'll also have the ability to charge it with off-peak rates, so that helps with its overall cost also. It's still a gamble and we'll be annoyed with ourselves when we have to live without it while it has warranty work done in NY...but maybe we'll love it enough that it will be worth it?

 

[CanadianLurker]

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The battery heater is not something you can add afterwards. You either have it or you don't.
Cars sent to California don't have it. Cars sent to Canada or the NE USA do.
Make sure you ask very clearly and specifically, because the technicians are unlikely to know what it is.
It is an electrical plate inside the battery pack itself.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the cabin heater, or the cooling system for the motor.

BTW you also want a heat pump. Less important than the battery heater but greatly adds to range in the winter.
My car has a heat pump, but does not have the battery heater. Having one does not always imply having the other.

Indeed, in Canada we get the Battery Heater as standard equipment. On the other hand, the Heat Pump is only available on the "Luxury" trim which includes the a number of other extras over the Base model.

 

[Cobberprof]

Indeed, in Canada we get the Battery Heater as standard equipment. On the other hand, the Heat Pump is only available on the "Luxury" trim which includes the a number of other extras over the Base model.

I'm sure that's why this one has it - it's the + model (US version of luxury trim, I believe). Maybe we should have checked Winnipeg for any of these cars...that's only 3 hours from here...

 

[CanadianLurker]

... AZ and CA vehicles are not equipped for our frozen tundra,...

Yes. I think your winter is probably like Quebec. Here's what you will see on cold mornings, if the battery heater hasn't been working.

Current Temp - 19C but the nighttime minimum was -23C. The battery is still -22C.
Range down to 67km. A warning message - "low battery temperature, limited power"

Perhaps if you have a heated garage this will never happen.

---------------------------------------------------------------
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Does the Battery Heater only operate while plugged in? Or does it also operate while driving?

Otherwise, with no Battery Heater does being plugged in and charging serve as an alternative way to keeping the battery warm? Probably wouldn't help as much as a proper battery heater but would being plugged in at work help the OP to keep the battery at least a little warmer than if it was parked unplugged?

 

[CanadianLurker]

Indeed, in Canada we get the Battery Heater as standard equipment. On the other hand, the Heat Pump is only available on the "Luxury" trim which includes the a number of other extras over the Base model.

I'm sure that's why this one has it - it's the + model (US version of luxury trim, I believe). Maybe we should have checked Winnipeg for any of these cars...that's only 3 hours from here...

Yes, looking for one up here in Canada might be an option to consider too if you can find a Luxury trim version available. Not sure how that would work with your tax credits. The Luxury MSRP is about $39,000 CAD$ before Deliver & PDI fees which puts you around $30,000 US$. Used ones are very scarce.

The nail in the coffin though may be that none of the Prairie Provinces are Authorized EV Dealers. As such, you'll be looking at either Thunder Bay in Ontario, Windsor Ontario, or Kelowna BC as your closest dealers. Only marginally better for you than going to New York!

 

[JejuSoul]

I'm guessing this car has never even been driven to it's full range, since it doesn't even have 100 miles on it. So this might be a dumb question...but how do you drive it to the full range without getting stranded somewhere? Is there any major (and reliable) signal that goes off when the car is imminently in need of charging? I could drive it around our block when it gets to that point, I suppose... :lol:

We asked them to knock another $2000 off. After the rebate, this car would cost us $14,500, still has 8 years on the powertrain and EV system and three years on the rest. We wouldn't want to use it on the really cold days in January...but for the other 11 months of the year, maybe it's worth the risk? We'll also have the ability to charge it with off-peak rates, so that helps with its overall cost also. It's still a gamble and we'll be annoyed with ourselves when we have to live without it while it has warranty work done in NY...but maybe we'll love it enough that it will be worth it?

It seems you have thought more about this purchase than anyone else has ever done before.
It really is a great car, and given that you are going to use it in a way that avoids any problems in bitterly cold weather I think it will work for you.

To see a range test of the Soul EV done by a EV Pro I recommend -

My car was the subject of Tony Williams' Soul EV range test posted on InsideEVs.com in October 2014. http://insideevs.com/kia-soul-ev-range-autonomy-demonstration-nets-100-miles/

https://youtu.be/AR3NCObaPW0

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[biffidum]

Your commute is a perfect length for the Soul. Don’t sweat the battery heater. You will lose some range but it will come back in the summer.

The only repair you will likely need to do is the OBC (on-board battery charger). It is covered under warranty and they can shuttle it away for repair... that is pretty much all that is likely to go wrong. The battery has a massive warranty on it.

Just know that your commute should not be at 70mph.... that will kill it. 60mph is ok

Also, get the delearship to put normal high quality tires on it. The EV factory tires are a POS that will get you killed, all in an effort to get 5 miles more range. NOT worth it. We even run winter tires which drop the range another 5miles, but still totally worth it.

We average 80km (Canada) a day of use and have 53,000km on ours. Three days a week are highway commutes. No indication the battery has changed. 15year warranty for that anyway.

You will love the car.

 

[chrislarsen3]

Hi, I bought one in Chicago used (2017, 3800 mi), came from Cali. I have done extensive research on this. Level 2 OBC failed 1 week after buying it. Warranty will replace but it will have to be done in GA or NY. Minnesota is NOT EV certified. I was concerned about kia paying for anything transport wise after this but after finding inhabe an EV certified tech (not kia just general) near me, i decided to have it kept up with regular sched inspection and had them look at the maint schedule. They said there is very little to do and so far very reliable. So i am going to keep the car.

Also, if you buy the car in canada your warranty will not apply to US (and vice versa).

It has been cold here (25F several days) and max degradation i am seeing is 25% and slightly slower charge.

Definitely get the plus model! I dont think i have the battery heater and it’s totally fine.

Time will tell how good my decision was but I am definitely ok with the calculated risk I’m taking. I LOVE the car. Hope this helps.

Best,
Chris