Refund for car that can’t be repaired

[KakkoiBoi]

After 3 months, of owning a 2016 Kia soul ev with only 100,000 kms, my kia stopped accepting a level one charge. My local Kia service desk checked it out and determined nothing was wrong with it. After all it took a level 2 charge. That was the last time it would accept any charge. After many weeks of trying get a new level one charger and installing level 2 charging in my garage, I went back to the local service department and showed them a video of my car refusing a charge while my friend’s bolt worked with my new level 2 charger. Finally they recognized there was something wrong with my car.

They suggested an on board charger. They suggested this because they weren’t sure what was wrong. Since an onboard charger would take several months to get and it may not fix the problem anyway I asked to get a new car. The dealership could not the determine the cars value so they put it on a Canada wide Kia dealer auction. The most any dealer would give me for it was 300 dollars because they said they don’t know what is wrong with it. I i was desperate for a daily driver and so I accepted the 300 and got a used ford.

It seems that reliable parts and a diagnostics should have been available for an eight-year-old car with only 100k! Since Kia did not provide support for this EV, they created the circumstances for me to lose several thousand dollars.

 

[IanL]

It is unfortunately the case that the repair policy for many EVs is to replace expensive sub-assemblies. However, 3rd party shops are beginning to emerge who can handle repair of those sub-assemblies. When that becomes widespread, the dealers will lose much of the non-warrantee repair business, unless they compete with the 3rd party shops, or act as their agents.

 

[JordanRieger]

Am I understanding you correctly? You got $300 compensation for a Kia Soul EV that was under EV warranty and was unable to charge via Level 1 and unreliable at Level 2? Level 1 charging is the absolute bare minimum! Without Level 1, owners can't charge using the cheapest infrastructure -- home trickle charging without a costly Level 2 installation. The whole point of EVs is cheap miles.

This sounds outrageous to me, and if I were you I would escalate to Kia Customer Care.

Edit: The USA Kia EV warranty was 10 years for a while. Is it only 8 years in Canada?

 

[JejuSoul]

Yes. In Canada the warranty is 8 years.
The On Board Charger would be included.
MY2016 are just at this limit in Canada.
It is only Korea and the US that have the better ten year warranty.

 

[suttercane]

MY2016 are just at this limit in Canada

Not always! I found this out the hard way. Warranty starts on date of purchase. My 2016 warranty started in sept of 2015. So depending on when the vehicle was purchased, OP could be out of warranty already.

I hate how different countries have longer/shorter warranties as well. Don't really understand that.

 

[JejuSoul]

MY2017 started in July 2016. That is why MY2016 are just at this limit in Canada. Obviously it depends on when the car was actually sold. Some dealers sold their cars quickly, others were sitting on the lot for a year. The warranty starts from when the car is sold, not when it was made.

 

[Nigel]

When my OBC failed and I couldn't charge from level 1 or 2 chargers the dealership told me that it might work on a level 3 as this doesn't use the OBC. Of course finding a handy level 3 charger is not always easy!! Bottom line is that the dealership took the car in and replaced the OBC under warranty and the new one didn't work. The car spent a month at the dealership and ended up having a second OBC installed plus some software updates. The charging on L1 and L2 has been fine since then. (2+ years).

 

[KakkoiBoi]

Am I understanding you correctly? You got $300 compensation for a Kia Soul EV that was under EV warranty and was unable to charge via Level 1 and unreliable at Level 2? Level 1 charging is the absolute bare minimum! Without Level 1, owners can't charge using the cheapest infrastructure -- home trickle charging without a costly Level 2 installation. The whole point of EVs is cheap miles.

This sounds outrageous to me, and if I were you I would escalate to Kia Customer Care.

Edit: The USA Kia EV warranty was 10 years for a while. Is it only 8 years in Canada?

It was eight years old and 100k kms. It was out of warranty. Apparently I bought a disposable car and 300 dollars was the deposit fee.

 

[KakkoiBoi]

Am I understanding you correctly? You got $300 compensation for a Kia Soul EV that was under EV warranty and was unable to charge via Level 1 and unreliable at Level 2? Level 1 charging is the absolute bare minimum! Without Level 1, owners can't charge using the cheapest infrastructure -- home trickle charging without a costly Level 2 installation. The whole point of EVs is cheap miles.

This sounds outrageous to me, and if I were you I would escalate to Kia Customer Care.

Edit: The USA Kia EV warranty was 10 years for a while. Is it only 8 years in Canada?

I communicated with Kia Customer Care from the beginning. A car should last longer than 100K kms.

 

[Barvic]

As a 2019 owner. I have come to realize that EV is not the answer and is contributing to so much more environmental impact and excess waste. We’ve run down the path of a fad eyes wide shut!

 

[IanL]

These are teething problems of a new product. I can imagine someone saying the same about the early automobiles. Give it 5 years and you'll have to eat your words.

The BEV will be established as the commuter car. Those who want inter-city capability will be in hydrogen FCEVs, which will be like hybrids, but with the FC taking the place of the gasoline engine.

 

[RubberToe]

These are teething problems of a new product. I can imagine someone saying the same about the early automobiles. Give it 5 years and you'll have to eat your words.

The BEV will be established as the commuter car. Those who want inter-city capability will be in hydrogen FCEVs, which will be like hybrids, but with the FC taking the place of the gasoline engine.

@IanL
Inter-city capability is already here, and has been for the last decade (starting in California in 2013). When I sold my 2015 Soul EV off the lease (to my wife) in 2018 I upgraded to a Model 3. I tripled my range (90 to 270) and the Supercharger network allowed me to travel to my usual set of destinations (LA to SF, Vegas, Phoenix) as easily as in a gas car. Switched after 3 years to the Model Y, and the same holds true. The only thing holding back long range EVs from becoming more main stream is the cost, but more companies are now making long range lower cost EVs (notably Kia and Hyundai). Note that the Model Y is the worlds best selling car despite the cost, due to the ability to travel long distances via the Supercharger network.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are a dead horse. Have been for many years now, which should be apparent to anyone just looking at the raw numbers sold versus battery cars, but also the fact that they are insanely expensive to fuel and the fuel comes from methane, so they are essentially fossil fuel cars in disguise.

I agree that EVs are having teething problems. See my other posts here about how we are trying to get Kia to buy back our 2015 Soul EV. This was a first generation "compliance car" that wasn't properly engineered to last, produced in very small numbers, and now exhibiting the teething problems you mention. My two Tesla's have been maintenance and problem free for 6 years now. Looking to lease a new Model Y shortly. If you have the ability to wrangle a Tesla, want to get off the fossil fuel death march, and drive a somewhat affordable EV that can beat a Ferrari in a race, take the plunge and don't look back.

RT

 

[JejuSoul]

RT - I agree with you the 27kWh Soul EVs have failed to last. The original E375 cells in the battery pack do not have the longevity to make this a sustainable car. For me cars need to last over 20 years to be considered 'sustainable'.

Ian - the 30kWh cars with the newer E400 cells have done much better. After 6 years they have shown little degradation. Probably they will last until after the warranty expires. A success for Kia. But I expect very few to last another 15 years.

RT - I too am a fan of Tesla. So is TeslaBjorn the YouTube reviewer. Here is the bottom half of his list of EVs with the most degradation. I wasn't surprised to see the 27kWh Soul EVs doing badly. But look how many Teslas are also there. In 20 years time the Ferrari will become a classic. I doubt the Tesla Model 3 Performance EVs are going to last that long.

 

[IanL]

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are a dead horse. Have been for many years now, which should be apparent to anyone just looking at the raw numbers sold versus battery cars, but also the fact that they are insanely expensive to fuel and the fuel comes from methane, so they are essentially fossil fuel cars in disguise.

Most of your electrical energy (you're in USA?) comes from fossil fuels at present, so you could say your EV is also a fossil fuel car in disguise ;-) Not so mine - we get ours from the Flamanville nuclear plant or the nearby wind farm in France.

Maybe I exaggerated with 5 years, but we in W Europe are heading to zero net emissions over a relatively short timescale, and hydrogen generation from non-fossil fuel energy is large in those plans (for heating and transport). One of the attractions of the FCEV is that refuelling is as quick as gasoline. I think the fat lady hasn't sung yet, and I don't think she will.

 

[IanL]

RT - I agree with you the 27kWh Soul EVs have failed to last. The original E375 cells in the battery pack do not have the longevity to make this a sustainable car. For me cars need to last over 20 years to be considered 'sustainable'.

Ian - the 30kWh cars with the newer E400 cells have done much better. After 6 years they have shown little degradation. Probably they will last until after the warranty expires. A success for Kia. But I expect very few to last another 15 years.

RT - I too am a fan of Tesla. So is TeslaBjorn the YouTube reviewer. Here is the bottom half of his list of EVs with the most degradation. I wasn't surprised to see the 27kWh Soul EVs doing badly. But look how many Teslas are also there. In 20 years time the Ferrari will become a classic. I doubt the Tesla Model 3 Performance EVs are going to last that long.

View attachment 189

Yes, my 2018 30 kWh hasn't reached the bottom of the buffer yet.

Be nice to see the whole list and the column headers - could you post a link, please?

 

[JejuSoul]

Here is the top half of his list of EVs with the least degradation.
The 28kWh Ioniq EV is doing really well, even if we discount the mistake he made saying the original usable capacity was 26kWh not 28kWh.



TB test results : - Excel data here

 

[Barvic]

As a 2019 owner. I have come to realize that EV is not the answer and is contributing to so much more environmental impact and excess waste. We’ve run down the path of a fad eyes wide shut!

Don’t think so but in five years we will revisit this and see. There has to be a dramatic shift in battery energy for production resources then longevity.