SOH 100% and poor range

[uspurs]

'17 Soul EV+ with 44.5K miles. Car has been good to us, but range started dropping off last winter and didn't bounce back come springtime. We were seeing around 70 miles on the GOM and that seemed to be realistic.
Car has been into dealer 1 on 3 occasions (BMS update was mis-applied the first 2 visits,) and the car came out with ~120 miles showing on the GOM. Real world range remained 65-70 miles.
Overnight L2 charging to 100% from empty - using a Juice box - showed only ~16KWh added; based on indicated energy consumption of 4.3 miles/KWh, that seems to about match the real world range.
The GOM hasn't reset, even with running to under 10% and charging. Overnight charge shows 100% on the dash.
Dealer 1 did run an SOH on the last visit (before restring the GOM, this time) and it showed 100% SOH.
Took it to a second dealer and they fully charged and got 100% SOH - without BMS reset.

My belief is that the battery only has around 65% of original capacity.

Anybody come across this and can advise next steps? Dealer 2 is stumped

Thanks

 

[IanL]

Only thing I can think of is chacking with SoulEV Spy. That should show you whether any cells are bad, and give another reading of SOH. Even if you get that, KIA will not accept it as grounds for a replacement, but it could allow you to start a dialog.

 

[uspurs]

Only thing I can think of is chacking with SoulEV Spy. That should show you whether any cells are bad, and give another reading of SOH. Even if you get that, KIA will not accept it as grounds for a replacement, but it could allow you to start a dialog.

Thanks for the response, and suggestion; I neglected to mention that I have run SS a couple of times - I will try to figure out how to attach a screenshot - and I don't think it shows anything particularly untoward.

Both dealerships claim that their EVSEs don't have a capability to monitor how many KWh have been sent to a vehicle - that seems odd.

 

[uspurs]

Not sure if this will work: https://imgur.com/a/wrBEea4

 

[IanL]

Yes, it looks ok. The problem is that the dealer's diagnostics is relying on the BMS being serviceable. If it is defective, it may not be fully charging the battery. Perhaps you could ask if they could arrange a BMS swap to localise the issue?

Ax regards the dealers checking the amount of charge supplied, the test equipment should be able to read that out of the BMS, as it's one of the parameters read by SS.

 

[uspurs]

Yes, it looks ok. The problem is that the dealer's diagnostics is relying on the BMS being serviceable. If it is defective, it may not be fully charging the battery. Perhaps you could ask if they could arrange a BMS swap to localise the issue?

Ax regards the dealers checking the amount of charge supplied, the test equipment should be able to read that out of the BMS, as it's one of the parameters read by SS.

I appreciate the advice / suggestion - I have it booked into another dealer end of next week (as I've not been impressed with the first two) and will ask if they might be able to swap BMS.
I am also leaning towards some sort of BMS fault - Soul Spy yesterday showed me an SOH of 111%, which seems odd.
We are charging off a Juice box and the app includes a graphic of the KwH being added - most times it charges at max rate (6 and change) for an hour and a half, then either drops off sharply to 0 over 15 mins, or sometimes has a long 'tail' charging at maybe 0.5-1.0.

I have also emailed Kia USA - they promise a response within 48 business hours, though I'm not sure what that means!

I will update the thread, as and when.

Thanks again!

 

[uspurs]

I heard back from Kia Corporate - took 4 business days - and they stated that only a dealer can open a Techline case; they further stated:
'The dealers are required to duplicate any vehicle concerns to provide repair options.'

Hopefully I can persuade dealer 3 to do what Kia expect of them

 

[Lithium]

couple things reading this through. Nothing on the Dash tells you anything but SOC, state of charge. SOH State of Health can be read by KDS KIA Diagnositc System, dongle and ipad device and is a line on the report showing all things SOC and SOH. 2017 should be well under warranty 100K mi and 10 years, so the dealer/kia should cover everything. My Dealer had never replaced a Kia Soul EV battery. I found a printout online showing this SOH line in the diagnostic and said I want to see this from my car. Mine came in at 66%. My 2016 warranty was 100k mi and 10year at or above 70% SOH. My 66% got my a claim and replacement.

You need to persist with the dealer. If you BMS is defective, they need to diagnose this and after you can also get a SOH reading.

Don't give up. My car came back today to 94Mi at 98% SOC from a new replacement pack. It's like getting a new car. 2017 are failing too. you might not be at 70%. Soulspy is cool and all but their algorithm is a guess vs KIA's diagnostic. I also read soulspy is not as effective or ineffective with different BMS software. Can't remember exactly but worth realizing. My soulspy reported 69% and dealer showed 66% a couple weeks on.

 

[uspurs]

Just to follow-up on this, we were approved for an HV battery preplacement 10 days ago and that battery has arrived at dealer 3.
It was the third visit to dealer 3 that finally got a tech line case opened. SS was consistently showing 111% and the dealership were unable to diagnose / identify the problem, initially. I also supplied a video of the car stationary, with battery % decreasing from 99% to 81% (along with range dropping from 127 - a fictitious number - to 98) . That seemed to get Kia Corporate's attention and they then had the dealership embark on further tests and collection of what they called 'flight data'. From receipt of my video, it took them 2 days to run the tests and authorize a replacement.
We're taking the car in on the 24th.

 

[IanL]

Good job. Out of interest, how long was the video showing the capacity loss while stationary?

 

[uspurs]

Good job. Out of interest, how long was the video showing the capacity loss while stationary?

The video was just over a minute - energy drop was around 30 seconds, GOM took an additional approx 30 seconds to bottom out.

I dropped the car off earlier today and am waiting to hear if the replacement pack is new or refurb, and whether it's 27 or 30 Kwh.

 

[Alex81]

I am very interested to hear what battery pack they will use to replace your current pack. I had my Onboard charger replaced under warranty earlier this year, and I had them test the SOH of my battery at the same time. Came back as 70.2, no replacement. It has since lost some more range, GOM now shows 61 miles on a full charge with no ac. With the current battery recall however I’m not sure what to do. I had really been looking forward to a new 30 Kwh battery

 

[uspurs]

I picked the Soul up earlier today; it has a 4250R replacement pack, which I understand is a remanufactured pack, with the E400 cells?
Have driven around 68 miles @ 4.5Kwh energy consumption (I ran at highway speed on the way back from the dealership, so that's a lower figure than I normally see) and the battery is at 40% - seems about right. GOM started @ 107, but that's after a BMS software update, I believe, so there'll now be relearning.

I would,like to try charging to just 80% on a regular basis, but as far as I can see there's no option to set that in the '17

 

[IanL]

I would,like to try charging to just 80% on a regular basis, but as far as I can see there's no option to set that in the '17

I can't tell whether your car is an 18MY with 100 cells or 17MY with 96 cells. Afaik, the 17MY has the option of 80% charge cutoff, accessed in the menu where charging times may be set, but the 18MY (like mine, although it was made in late 17) does not, thanks to the US regulators. I understand the replacement you have is suitable for both, so that's no help. Can you see in Spy how many cells you have?

I just have to set start and end times for my charge to 80% - I find 30% to 80% at 16A takes 5hr20min, and at 32A (probably limited by the car to 30A) it takes 2hr50min. I'm usually not in a hurry, so I use 16A (my wallbox has a control to set max current) to allow for any other simultaneous high demand in the house.

 

[Alex81]

I wonder if the 4250R pack has the issues that lead to the recall/software update resolved. Have you gotten any more time to test how many miles you can get out of the pack?

 

[uspurs]

I would,like to try charging to just 80% on a regular basis, but as far as I can see there's no option to set that in the '17

I can't tell whether your car is an 18MY with 100 cells or 17MY with 96 cells. Afaik, the 17MY has the option of 80% charge cutoff, accessed in the menu where charging times may be set, but the 18MY (like mine, although it was made in late 17) does not, thanks to the US regulators. I understand the replacement you have is suitable for both, so that's no help. Can you see in Spy how many cells you have?

I just have to set start and end times for my charge to 80% - I find 30% to 80% at 16A takes 5hr20min, and at 32A (probably limited by the car to 30A) it takes 2hr50min. I'm usually not in a hurry, so I use 16A (my wallbox has a control to set max current) to allow for any other simultaneous high demand in the house.

It's a '17; new - reman - pack is 96 cells. I believe these cells have slightly greater capacity than the originals; we ran down to 32% battery yesterday and overnight the car took 20.5Kw, so that's consistent with a 30Kwh pack. I am not sure if SoulSpy can properly report the new pack, tbh.

Regarding the charging %, it does show a % (100) when configuring the charging schedule, but there's no way to change that %; I read elsewhere that option was removed during one of the many BMS software upgrades

I will check our Juicebox for charging options - wouldn't you know that when I need to be able to track JB charging, our box went offline (again) for almost 5 days and I now have no history from when we first got the car back with the reman pack. Don't get me started on JB software and backend services!

 

[uspurs]

I wonder if the 4250R pack has the issues that lead to the recall/software update resolved. Have you gotten any more time to test how many miles you can get out of the pack?

Good question re the recall - I suspect the pack may have the issues.

Range started at 107 after replacement and was 103 after charging this morning; yesterday the missus drove around 80 miles, used 68% battery (energy usage showed 4.4miles/Kwh - I don't think that was accurate, but I'm not sure how that is calculated). I expect the range to increase when I drive (), but right now it looks as though 110 is achievable and if we can reliably get 100 miles of range, I will be OK with that.

I will post an update in a week / 10 days.

 

[IanL]

It's a '17; new - reman - pack is 96 cells. I believe these cells have slightly greater capacity than the originals; we ran down to 32% battery yesterday and overnight the car took 20.5Kw, so that's consistent with a 30Kwh pack. I am not sure if SoulSpy can properly report the new pack, tbh.

You should have 96/100*30kWh, i.e. 28.8 kWh. My 30 kWh battery gives 120 miles in our mild winter, on local roads, Under the same conditions, I would expect you to get 115 miles.

Unfortunately, a wallbox has no way to tell via the cable what %age charge the car has reached, so without the option to set it in the car, timing is the only way. I suppose the box could be given the facility to stop after a particular charging amount, but would have to calculate how much that would be, based on the starting SOC and nominal battery capacity, which the user would have to input.

My car doesn't have an mobile phone-linked interface available, but you may have in your country. Assuming the car reports SOC on that link, the wallbox would need hardware and software to emulate the phone app in order to get the data. Big ask.

 

[uspurs]

It's a '17; new - reman - pack is 96 cells. I believe these cells have slightly greater capacity than the originals; we ran down to 32% battery yesterday and overnight the car took 20.5Kw, so that's consistent with a 30Kwh pack. I am not sure if SoulSpy can properly report the new pack, tbh.

You should have 96/100*30kWh, i.e. 28.8 kWh. My 30 kWh battery gives 120 miles in our mild winter, on local roads, Under the same conditions, I would expect you to get 115 miles.

Unfortunately, a wallbox has no way to tell via the cable what %age charge the car has reached, so without the option to set it in the car, timing is the only way. I suppose the box could be given the facility to stop after a particular charging amount, but would have to calculate how much that would be, based on the starting SOC and nominal battery capacity, which the user would have to input.

My car doesn't have an mobile phone-linked interface available, but you may have in your country. Assuming the car reports SOC on that link, the wallbox would need hardware and software to emulate the phone app in order to get the data. Big ask.

That 28.8 figure ties with what the service advisor mentioned, so that makes sense - thanks.

Agreed re the wallbox; setting a charge time would be a daily thing, but maybe that's the way to go, once we feel comfortable with the range / battery use. Thanks for the mention of 120 miles What I would say is that having reliable range / battery capacity again is a bit of a game-changer; where we live, not being sure that we could actually drive 60 miles really restricted how often / much we could use the Soul.
I think the Kia uvo / connect app no longer works here in the States.

Thanks again for your feedback and comments.

 

[Lithium]

so i got the new pack in January for my 2016 and the letter came in last month saying even my new pack can catch fire so I believe we'll get another pack soon enough... such a mess. I am regularly seeing 116-118 miles of range with the new pack. fingers crossed and not parked near the house!