Suspect Aux battery too low...

[dgpretzel]

2017 Soul EV won't start.

AV, instrument cluster work. No "Ready Light", though.

Measured voltage of the Aux battery: 11.96V. (That is with Power Off, and battery still connected. But, that seems a little low, to me.

I have a charger, and am going to try to recharge that Aux battery. Does anyone know what kind it is? I see no cell caps, so presume it it either gel or AGM. I don't know how to tell. No battery model or specs in owner's manual that I can find (but maybe I'm being blind.)

As I recall it is OK to charge one of them as the other, but I don't recall which way is "OK". Maybe the charging profile isn't so different that it would actually damage the battery, for a single charging episode??

DG

 

[SoulEV2016]

and when you push the POWER button with the smartkey ?
(it's a real procedure when internal battery of smartkey die, read the manual !).

 

[dgpretzel]

I had read the manual, and I did try that. Nothing.

The only thing that happened when I pressed start was radio and instrument cluster came on. No green "Ready Light". No steering. No Go.

I put a battery charger on it (using gel setting, to be conservative [I think]). Currently nearing completion. Voltage showing 14.1. (Was 11.98 measured with digital VOM before I started charge.)

I'll know soon if low aux battery was the reason vehicle not starting.

DG

 

[dgpretzel]

I just tried it when the charger was reading 14.2 V (82%). Nada. Zip.

I have to go do an errand, but I will put the charger back on when I return, and let it go to completion. Just to be following the manual, I will disconnect the negative terminal of the battery before I start charging again.

When I removed the charger and pushed the power button... same as before. Instrument cluster LEDs come on, the chime sounds about three times while LED on Power Button remains dark, then Power Button LEd comes on amber, while chime continues to sound about three more times. I think it sounds 6 times total. I can push Power Button additionally (without brake) and it cycles trhough amber, reddish, off, like the manual describes. If I press it again (after the initial press) nothing more happens. (Remains on amber and doesn't either change to reddish orange or go off.)

DG

 

[dgpretzel]

Got back and did some note charging.

Did a test start when charging village was 14.3V. I had removed the negative connection for this second charging attempt. It appeared to be more effective. So there must be a small but significant parasitic load. Open circuit village at the battery terminals was then 13.1V. Reconnected the negative terminal connector, and then measured again (with the parasitic load), and observed 13.0 V.

Attempted to start, and.... Voila! SUCCESS.

Conclusion: Be very careful to avoid draining 12v aux battery.

(My fault, of course. But, I have to say I think it is too easy to do this. The little LED on the power button is very small, and almost invisible when Sun [say from open sunroof] is shining on it.)

DG

 

[SoulEV2016]

Usually, with a EV car, you must not disconnect the negative of the AUX battery ... because of the common GND of the High-Voltage inside the LDC (DC-DC converter).

A 1000k Ohms Surge resistor is checked by the car (and display in the Torque Pro PIDs).

Perhaps, it's an electronic circuit (not passive) that it restores this shunt between GND (High-Voltage) and the negative of the AUX battery.

Perhaps, it's a timer circuit (we have this on computer, too ... between GND and earth).

 

[dgpretzel]

More strangeness...

Today, again, I couldn't start the car. Battery was not quite as low as yesterday morning. Again, I put charger on it. This time I did not disconnect the 12V negative terminal. I let the battery charge to even higher voltage than yesterday. Still would not start. I then did disconnect the negative terminal and charged some more, but only a few minutes. Then, because i was getting frustrated (not that that would accomplish anything), I tried to start again (had to reconnect negative terminal, of course). Voila! it started. I didn't measure, but have to think voltage was not much different from just a few minutes before.

I wonder if the "magic" this time was really the disconnect and reconnect of the negative terminal. Perhaps, something got reset???

I add the following additional information, which I now think may be relevant (I hadn't previously made any association). The night before yesterday (yesterday being the first day I had trouble with starting), I changed the charging schedule. Up to now, I had charging start at 10:00 PM and end at 6:00 AM. That night, I changed it to start at 2:00 AM and end at 6:00 AM. When I plugged the car in (at about 10 PM), though, it immediately started charging. I was surprised because the start of the charging window I specified was still 4 hours in the future (2 AM). I used the uvo app to halt the charging, and made doubly sure that the start and stop times were set to 2AM and 6AM , respectively, for every day of the week, then refreshed the status (pressed the circular arrow on the uvo app). Immediately, the car started charging again. Remember, this is about 10PM, four hours before the scheduled charging window. I did this several times, just to observe that the behavior was stabel and repeatable. It was. Every time I refreshed the uvo app, charging began, even though the current time was NOT in the charging window.

Finally, I made sure, yet again, that I had the 2AM - 6AM charging window set, and did NOT do a refresh of the uvo app. I just let it sit, with the car plugged in, observed that it was not currently charging, and went to bed. The next morning, the charge had occurred at 2AM, but the 12V battery was flat. (And that began the adventure I described above, about charging the 12V battery.)

Now, last night I again plugged the car in around 10PM. I noticed that as soon as I plugged it in, the blue charging LEDs came on (solid left, middle flashing). So, it had started charging immediately upon being plugged in, even though the charge schedule start time was still four hours in the future. I used the uvo app to halt the charging. Refreshed the screen, and immediately the charging started again.

Obviously, there is a defect in the uvo app that causes it to disregard the charging schedule. And yet, if I halted the charging, and just left if alone, when 2AM came around, the charging schedule actually worked. So, the uvo app is not dependable for setting charging.

Anyway, this morning, again, the 12V battery was too low to start the car. Or maybe it wasn't. Maybe it would have started had I only disconnected and reconnected the negative terminal, before attempting to start the car.

I really don't know what is happening, and I won't be able to do any further experiments for a week, because we are leaving on vacation for a week.

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on what may be happening. I believe there may be some relation to the curious behavior regarding the charging scheduler, the 12V battery, and the inability to start in the morning, after repeated manipulation of charging via the uvo app. Seems somehow to get into a weird state that disconnect and reconnect of 12V battery fixes. Or maybe the 12V battery was just simply too low to start the car.

???

Thank you for any comments.

Regards,

DG

 

[SoulEV2016]

change the clock setting in the GPS : use "internal clock" instead of "GPS/satellites clock".

you don't have a bro that it can lease a battery for 24-48h ?
just to test an other AUX battery ... with the scheduled charge.

 

[dgpretzel]

It happened again, tonight. I finished driving it shortly before 10PM. It started charging at 10:10PM.

[ASIDE: There seems to be another issue that may or may not be related, in that the car starts charging immediately I plug in the EVSE, WITHOUT waiting for the charging schedule. I have to stop the charge [via the uvo smart phone app] so that it can wait for the scheduled charge time. If I do stop the charge, then when the scheduled start time arrives, it starts just like it is supposed to. It's just that it starts immediately upon plug in, and I have to manually stop it.]

Anyway, I let it charge for about an hour, to about 70%. I don't want it at 100% because we are leaving tomorrow for a week.

So, when I finished the charge, I immediately tried to start the car. Nothing. Red 12V warning LED is on. No green Ready LED.

I put the charger on the 12V battery. within a few minutes it showed 15 volts (under charge). I removed the charger and measured 12.86 volts at the battery terminals (with battery connections still in place). I tried to start the car. Zilch. No green Ready LED. I then disconnected the battery, and immediately reconnected it. Then tried to start again. Presto. SUCCESS.

It seems that the charging process somehow gets the car in a strange state such that disconnecting and reconnecting the 12V battery is required to start the car upon completion of the charge. (The disconnect and reconnect of the battery was common to all my episodes of difficulty in the past 2 or 3 days.) Like something needs to be reset or rebooted. I wonder what is happening, and how to fix it.

Also, I wonder if cycling the switch in the fuse box would have similar effect to getting out a wrench and physically disconnecting and reconnecting the battery? It would certainly be a more convenient work-around.

I have requested to consult with a technician at the dealer, when we return from a brief vacation a week from today.

Anyone have any ideas on what might be happening, and how to fix it?

Thank you.

Regards,

DG

 

[SoulEV2016]

be careful : when you approach the car and unlock it ... the assistance-pump of the brake system start.
and for that, you MUST have a good AUX Battery.
On french forum, a complete DEAD AUX Battery generate a message on the dashboard : braking system FAIL.

so change the AUX battery and the battery of the smartkey to be sure.

 

[dgpretzel]

I do understand that the 12V battery might be bass, despite the vehicle being brand new.

But, I also wonder about the behavior I observed. Specifically. I measured 12.8 volts at the battery. Tried to start, but couldn't. Low battery warning led illuminated. Then, I disconnected and reconnected the battery and tried again. This was only 2 or 3 minutes later. With this second attempt (2 minutes later), the low battery warning LED NOT illuminated, and start was successful.

DG

 

[dgpretzel]

"might be bad"

I dislike auto complete.

DG

 

[dgpretzel]

After returning from vacation and doing some more experimenting (this time not in a rush), I think I have identified and resolved the problem.

In short: "Pilot Error".

I inadvertently had the charge schedule override button pressed.

Before I left on vacation, I was observing charging starting right away, instead of being delayed. I then used smart phone UVO app to reset charging schedule, and hit the refresh button. After the interminable delay that UVO requires, the display refreshed and immediate charging observed. I (incorrectly) associated the immediate charge with pressing the refresh button, and though maybe something wrong with the app. Or my car. I spent several hours fooling around with this basic scenario, and then gave up and went to bed. It was the next morning when I went to start the car that I discovered the dead 12V battery that I previously reported.

Now, I don't know why the 12V battery discharged, but have to think it was some cause or side effect of the playing around I was doing.

Since I discovered that the override button had been pressed, and then turned the override off, I have had no problem.

I think it is a little unfortunate that:

1) The override button is right next to the charge port open button, which is used a lot. (Usually I forget to press it beforfe exiting the car, and then have to open the door, reach in, and press the button. It is very easy to hit the wrong button. So...

2)Too bad that there is no LED in that button, or some other indication that it is pressed. It really can "mess with your mind" if it is engaged, and you don't know it.

I am pleased that there is no problem, after all.

I would suggest to KIA that they either move the button (perhaps beside the climate override button) or put a LED in it or make it have a longer "throw" so that it is visually obvious if it is engaged.

DG

 

[dgpretzel]

P.S. Another way to reduce the tendency to hit the wrong button when reaching in from outside (because of forgetting to hit the chargeport open button before exiting the car) would be to put a open port button on the smart key.