Anyone bought a Kia Soul EV?

[dcciphone]

It seems like everyone is leasing. I'm ready to buy (not lease), but the dealership is trying to talk me out of it. I don't mind 100 mile range. My commute is 14 miles and I hate driving. If the technology is that much better in three years (and I need it), then I will sell it and get a new one (or hand it down to a kid who shouldn't be driving far anyways)

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[NYSoul]

Here's what you're missing...

First off, it's practically a guarantee that there will be cars with close to, if not more than, double the range on the market for the same price, if not less, in the next 24-36 months. That will seriously hurt the resale value of your car, meaning that trying to sell it and upgrade will cause you to lose a significant amount of money.

For example, if you purchase the Soul for $36,000 today and then sell it in 3 years for $10,000, you will have spent $26,000 to drive the car for those 3 years. That comes out to $722/month. That figure does not include the Federal tax credit of $7,500, which would reduce that figure down to $514/month, which is still way more than the car leases for. If these numbers sound crazy to you, please look up what a 2012 Leaf with ~36,000 miles is currently selling for; and that's WITHOUT any competitors/replacements being released with double the range!

That brings me to another reason why everyone leases EVs: you need to have a high income to claim the full tax credit, and you have to wait until next year to actually get it. If you're okay floating that $7500 until next February, and you know for sure that your salary is high enough to qualify for the full $7500, then maybe purchasing is for you. However, on a lease Kia, as the legal buyer of the car, gets to claim the credit, and then passes it along to you in the form of lower lease payments.

Bottom line: Don't buy unless you plan on keeping the car for significantly more than 3 years, AND you know for sure you will receive the full credit, AND you're financially able to float the $7500 credit until you file your 2015 taxes in early 2016.

 

[iletric]

+1

Very well explained.

 

[irfca]

Here's what you're missing...

First off, it's practically a guarantee that there will be cars with close to, if not more than, double the range on the market for the same price, if not less, in the next 24-36 months. That will seriously hurt the resale value of your car, meaning that trying to sell it and upgrade will cause you to lose a significant amount of money.

I've been trying to research this claim, although, admittedly, I have not found all of the info I want to be certain... From what I can tell, the Soul is using the "next generation" battery, when compared to cars like the popular LEAF. The LEAF has used it's existing battery technology since approx 2010, and has been rumoured to be switching to the Soul's battery generation "any year now" for the past 3 years or so. Certainly the other vehicles out there are very likely to be switching in the next year or two, and will then have similar range to the Soul EV.

I have my doubts the next turn of the crank will happen as quickly as 2-3 years, given this past turn. There is more then just the next-generation technology being available, it also has to be affordable wrt the existing in-production generation, and has to be considered with charge times, charger capacity, in-car chargers, heating/cooling of the pack, etc. If the battery capacity were to double, then either the charge times approximately double from 4hrs+ to 8hrs+ for the 6.6kw chargers, and 30min to 1hr for DC chargers, or the charger capacity will need to be increased to 9.9kw or 13.2kw - both of which start to approach the maximum most houses could supply with 200A service. The longer charge times *may* also serve to spook some buyers. I'm sure there is a sweet spot in range that will make the cars acceptable to most ... the question is, what is that sweet spot - 200km? 250km? 300km? Time will tell. The Tesla with a range of 260km seems to be doing very well. The Soul EV with 150km/180km also seems to be breaking past objections other shorter range EVs had.

To me, the biggest risk to the value of an EV is manufacturer incentives. I didn't buy a Ford because of that ($12,750 rebate!) because those incentives significantly devalue resale value. So long as Kia does not discount the Soul EV to make it a California compliance car, it should retain reasonable values.

The buy/lease decision rests on other aspects too. At least in Canada, the lease rates are not incented as much as in the US. But also, for me at least, my annual driving is going to be in the 35,000km - 40,000km range (22k miles - 25k miles). The lease rate was actually more than the purchase payment ... so I bought it. So long as the battery does not give out, and the charging infrastructure continues to improve, I am not overly concerned. Also, as the charging infrastructure continues to improve, and more drive EVs, they will become more attractive to more buyers ... so long as manufacture's don't scare buyers away with excessive charge times, too short a range, too high a price, etc...

 

[UkiwiS]

Here's what you're missing...

That brings me to another reason why everyone leases EVs: you need to have a high income to claim the full tax credit, and you have to wait until next year to actually get it. If you're okay floating that $7500 until next February, and you know for sure that your salary is high enough to qualify for the full $7500, then maybe purchasing is for you. However, on a lease Kia, as the legal buyer of the car, gets to claim the credit, and then passes it along to you in the form of lower lease payments.

Bottom line: Don't buy unless you plan on keeping the car for significantly more than 3 years, AND you know for sure you will receive the full credit, AND you're financially able to float the $7500 credit until you file your 2015 taxes in early 2016.

I don't know about this. I leased mine here in CA earlier this month, and the $7500 credit was rolled into the price. I don't believe there is anything for me to do at tax time. Is it the same when you buy or are there actually tax implications as you imply?

I did the math and the excess paid over the lease duration was about $40 per month or slightly less than $1500 total. I thought that was fairly reasonable. At end of the lease I get to evaluate my options, knowing that I can buy it if I want it for the residual ($16,495). I can compare prices and options at that time and make an informed decision.

 

[ericonline]

Hello there. I'm the type to usually buy a car outright rather than lease for a variety of reasons, most notably because I usually keep a car for 8 years or so. But I'm likely to lease a Soul EV when it comes to Texas for a few reasons. The most notable reason is that Kia seems to overestimate the Residual Value. It is a fixed % of MSRP, so for a Soul EV+ the RV is over 16k after 3 year lease. It is almost impossible for the car to be worth this much in 3 years. If you factor in the 7,500 federal credit and maybe a 2,500 state credit (varies by state of course), and maybe a slight dealer discount you are looking at a purchase price of about 25k. So realistically I figure an appropriate RV should be about 10-12k. As others here have noted the risk is probably to the downside as far as RV is concerned as better alternatives (Model 3, Volt 2, Bolt, LEAF 2, etc) hit the market over the next few years.

Based on the info posted on this site regarding lease deals, the total cost of the lease seems to be a really good deal. And even if you are convinced you want to keep this car for more than 3 years, it seems to make sense to still lease and then maybe purchase it after 3 years. The total cost of this seems marginally more than buying outright, and you retain the option of walking away in 3 years and just buying the next gen EVs if they are cheap enough. Ok, help this helps.

 

[mtndrew1]

I don't know about this. I leased mine here in CA earlier this month, and the $7500 credit was rolled into the price. I don't believe there is anything for me to do at tax time. Is it the same when you buy or are there actually tax implications as you imply?

When you lease a car, the bank actually purchases the car from the dealer and rents it out to you. As such, the bank takes the $7500 credit and passes it on at the point of vehicle delivery. This is why you see the credit rolled into the price.

If you purchase the car this is not the case and it's your responsibility to claim the tax credit on the next year's tax return. This can be very tricky as one must have at least a $7500 tax obligation, not be subject to AMT, etc.

 

[jysl]

I don't know about this. I leased mine here in CA earlier this month, and the $7500 credit was rolled into the price. I don't believe there is anything for me to do at tax time. Is it the same when you buy or are there actually tax implications as you imply?

When you lease a car, the bank actually purchases the car from the dealer and rents it out to you. As such, the bank takes the $7500 credit and passes it on at the point of vehicle delivery. This is why you see the credit rolled into the price.

If you purchase the car this is not the case and it's your responsibility to claim the tax credit on the next year's tax return. This can be very tricky as one must have at least a $7500 tax obligation, not be subject to AMT, etc.

I bought it outright due to the fact that I will put tons of mileage on it (20k per year)
You can use the credit to offset AMT

From IRS web site

Q. Does the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) impact the alternative motor vehicle credit?

A. Starting in 2009, the new law allows the alternative motor vehicle credit, including the tax credit for purchasing hybrid vehicles, to be applied against the alternative minimum tax. Prior to the new law, the alternative motor vehicle credit could not be used to offset the AMT.

 

[PIFOUKIA]

Hello from France

I ordered my Soul EV ULTIMATE two weeks ago at my KIA dealer because in France normal price is EUR 36790 but there is a EUR 6300 governmental discount for electric vehicle and a very recent other EUR 3700 governmental discount if you put your 15 year old Diesel car to the trash and my luck is that I have a 1989 Volvo 240 Diesel with 484000km then I will have the EUR 10000 discount which is taken directly by the dealer. And Because the Soul EV is expensive and not very popular in France (RENAULT build the ZOE and previously the FLUENCE for a lower price but lower performances) then I was able to have a EUR 4590 Dealer discount too then the price of my SOUL EV ULTIMATE is EUR 22200 instead of EUR 36790 :mrgreen:

With this price, I think it's better than a EUR 249/month rent.

When This car will have more than the 7 warranty year in France or 150000km, battery technology will be very better and probably it will be possible to replace the tired actual batteries by new ones with a better capacity without replacing the car itself

 

[tractioninc]

Here in the US, the Nissan Leaf is a pretty direct competitor to the Soul in terms of size and range. Nissan is finding that wholesale values of Leafs turned at the end of 24 month leases are substantially lower than what was projected at the start of the leases--to the point that Nissan Financial is offering customers $4,000-$5,000 off the residual price at lease end to get customers to buy their Leafs instead of turning them back in.

I had never leased a vehicle before getting my Soul EV, but the leasing financials for EVs just seems to make better sense in this marketplace--the depreciation rate is just too steep.

 

[irfca]

When This car will have more than the 7 warranty year in France or 150000km, battery technology will be very better and probably it will be possible to replace the tired actual batteries by new ones with a better capacity without replacing the car itself

I think a lot of us are hoping this will prove to be the case - either Kia itself will provide an upgrade option to existing cars, or if we have a warranty battery replacement in a 'few years', we'll have the option of paying to upgrade to the latest and greatest in-production batteries ... assuming the key design criteria for the batteries remains the same ... things like voltage and charging characteristics.

 

[jmarie5000]

Sadly I think upgrading existing cars is highly unlikely if we can take how things have progressed so far with other BEVs.

 

[irfca]

Sadly I think upgrading existing cars is highly unlikely if we can take how things have progressed so far with other BEVs.

I tend to agree with you ... it is possible 3rd party battery re-conditioners will show up in the next few years, as more and more used BEVs become available as re-sales ... a lot would depend on the market for reconditioned batteries (i.e. cheap used vehicles that could have a range similar to new vehicles at that time), along with warranty and safety implications of reconditioned batteries

 

[dcciphone]

I'm returning to this thread. I've drank the kool aid and intend to lease a Kia Soul EV+. The uncanny thing in Northern California is that most of the dealers only have the black and red combo, perhaps due to starting to ship to other states.

 

[Brickvipe]

What lease price are you getting quoted up there? I will probably buy one today or tomorrow if I can get a good price? I want a 3 year 15k miles per year lease with $2500 down that covers up front costs and cap reduction.

 

[dcciphone]

What lease price are you getting quoted up there? I will probably buy one today or tomorrow if I can get a good price? I want a 3 year 15k miles per year lease with $2500 down that covers up front costs and cap reduction.

For 12k miles, I'm quoted $0 money down, $299/month plus tax and license. I have my doubts, especially after my last failed attempt to lease the Kia from a Kia dealer who didn't want to honor Kia's lease terms and charge me MSRP and add some crazy drive off fee.

I am far from an expert, but I've learned a few things along the way, including that there's no such thing as money down. It's "up front" and a trick to make the lease payments seem lower.

I'm planning on leasing, and if I want to keep it, then buy someone else's lease return with less miles. At least in this area, low mileage Nissan Leaf lease returns can be had for next to nothing.

 

[JejuSoul]

Just to add to the accepted wisdom - lease not buy.
I recently saw a nissan leaf post where the driver bought his 3 year old leased car for 8000usd. Total cost 18000usd.
Unless you can get a discount greater than this (currently not possible!) then you always get a better deal leasing.
I live on Jeju Island, South Korea which has the highest subsidy for EV's in the world.
I bought my car for 20000usd - close but still above the lease cost.

 

[Lithim]

Not a Kia Soul, but same principle.
Feb 2013, leased a 2012 Mitsubishi I-MIEV for two years at $125.13/month.( Great deal by the way)
Mileage allowance 15000 per year.
Residual value: $23,000 +
Turned in car Feb 2015, purchased car back for $9300 after the dealer called finance company the day I turned in car.
I had called finance company numerous times prior to turning the car in but they didn't want to make a deal at less than residual value.
Electric cars( other than Tesla) are not valued at anything close to residual value at lease return time.
I was reluctant to lease( first time ever) but in retrospect it was the way to go.
By the way, electric Soul has arrived in Houston!!!
Stay charged my friend.

 

[GenZeJohn]

I bought. Northern CA, silver. The $7500 tax credit is easy to do, and it's a big help if you pay a lot of taxes - which I do.

Leasing? Lot of downsides, too. Nobody tells me how much to drive, and you know the deck is stacked in the dealership's favor most of the time.

Sure, tech may change, it always does, but the Soul EV is a great car and does what it was designed to do. Realtively short range, but more charging stations will open, the hassles will diminish, and EVs will thrive.

My 2nd car will be a long-range EV, but for now, my Soul is a start.

 

[ALF]

The 2016 Nissan Leaf SL and SV have a greater range than the Soul. Chevy claims that the 200-mile-range Bolt will be available in 2017. Nissan and Tesla claim that their 200-mile, $35k EVs will be available soon afterward. In that climate, I think that a 2016 Soul is going to be seriously depreciated in 2-3 years, so it makes total sense to lease instead of buy.