Battery Recall for cars with E400 high-voltage battery.

[andrew1joe]

The list we have is maintained by NHTSA. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
It's a US agency but Canadian cars are also on the list

Thanks JejuSoul. Interesting that in all three cases, the damage was limited to within the HV pack and didn’t spread. In Chevy Bolt case, few cars burned down to the ground in thermal runaway which made the incidents super dangerous.

 

[mariano3113]

2015 soul, had the e400 pack installed a few years ago. The car was running great. I took it in for the recall, they already had a cable, and it’s been there over a month. i’m told that the battery did not give the proper responses after the new cable was installed. They are waiting for Kia to tell them what to do and it was mentioned that I may have to get a new pack. Kia has been paying for my rental car.

This is going to turn into a huge mess if I need a new pack because I’m in the process of moving next month to another state over 2000 miles away. sometimes I wish they would buy this car back but I love it so much that I wish it would just be fixed.

Horne Kia loaned me a 2024 Kia Sportage
2015 Soul EV is still with Horne Kia Service (since 12/14/2023)

Been transporting cabinets and countertops with the Lightning during Christmas Holiday week.

Have put a whole 18 miles on the loaner-Kia...hoping to change that soon*

I too have a 2015, out of warranty, > 100k miles. Battery fully charged had degraded to ~75mi. Got recall of wiring harness. A day after fixed, went into turtle mode and BMS error (never seen either before). Then KIA stated issue was fixed with a BMS "software upgrade". A day after, again turtle mode and BMS error. Then Kia took a few weeks to replace the battery pack with a refurbished one, now getting ~90mi on a full charge. But again after a day same issue. KIA has had the car back for 4 weeks stated a NEW battery pack was coming from Korea. It finally got here, installed and car seems to be running great. But the next day Kia asked for the car back for further investigation.

I am hoping to get another battery *wink* and soon...

That should last me well into 2025/2026 when new Genesis NACS EVs arrive or Lucid Gravity to replace Soul EV.

(Since it seems US will not get Kia EV5 and now doubtful we will get EV3)

 

[ReggiesRide510510]

I too have a 2015, out of warranty, > 100k miles. Battery fully charged had degraded to ~75mi. Got recall of wiring harness. A day after fixed, went into turtle mode and BMS error (never seen either before). Then KIA stated issue was fixed with a BMS "software upgrade". A day after, again turtle mode and BMS error. Then Kia took a few weeks to replace the battery pack with a refurbished one, now getting ~90mi on a full charge. But again after a day same issue. KIA has had the car back for 4 weeks stated a NEW battery pack was coming from Korea. It finally got here, installed and car seems to be running great. But the next day Kia asked for the car back for further investigation.

I also got the Turtle mode (@ 65%SOC ?!? ) twice in 2 days back in Dec. '23 after the recall repair was done in October 2023. The car was driving GREAT until the recall repair. First turtle mode was fixed with a "manual software reset". Second time, I just had it towed to the dealership where it's been since the 1st week of Dec. 2023. Both times had to have a tow since unable to drive on freeway on turtle. (2016 EV+ with the original battery replaced Nov. 2020 as documented on this forum). I got approved for another new battery pack but get conflicting timelines for battery arrival -- dealer says late Feb./March; KiaUSA says no ETA date. No loaner available from the dealership so I've had to get a car rental out of pocket (Chevy Bolt and now Hyundai Kona EV). I just hope to get reimbursed when this is all done. Thanks for reading & good luck to all out there.

 

[JejuSoul]

Correction - Maybe the good news I write here is incorrect. There are conflicting reports. Perhaps they are re-manufactured packs.

The good news here is that everyone is getting new packs from Korea - not the re-manufactured packs.
The bad news is that the number of failing packs is greater than currently available.

Despite the many reports of failures here I will keep the failure statistic as 1 in ten.
To be random only the users who reported on this thread before getting a failure are counted.
Posting after the fact is not random. It is self selective.
People with a failed battery are more likely to post on a thread about failed batteries.
But it does seem like the odds of getting a new pack are quite high.

 

[kimdavi]

The good news here is that everyone is getting new packs from Korea - not the re-manufactured packs.
The bad news is that the number of failing packs is greater than currently available.

Despite the many reports of failures here I will keep the failure statistic as 1 in ten.
To be random only the users who reported on this thread before getting a failure are counted.
Posting after the fact is not random. It is self selective.
People with a failed battery are more likely to post on a thread about failed batteries.
But it does seem like the odds of getting a new pack are quite high.

"getting new packs... not the remanufactured packs." Where are you getting this information about the new packs coming from Korea?

 

[edman98]

I also got the Turtle mode (@ 65%SOC ?!? ) twice in 2 days back in Dec. '23 after the recall repair was done in October 2023. The car was driving GREAT until the recall repair. First turtle mode was fixed with a "manual software reset". Second time, I just had it towed to the dealership where it's been since the 1st week of Dec. 2023. Both times had to have a tow since unable to drive on freeway on turtle. (2016 EV+ with the original battery replaced Nov. 2020 as documented on this forum). I got approved for another new battery pack but get conflicting timelines for battery arrival -- dealer says late Feb./March; KiaUSA says no ETA date. No loaner available from the dealership so I've had to get a car rental out of pocket (Chevy Bolt and now Hyundai Kona EV). I just hope to get reimbursed when this is all done. Thanks for reading & good luck to all out there.

We have similar stores and I’m waiting indefinitely after NEW battery pack from Korea was installed, worked great, but after a day Kia requested it back.

But even when Kia didn’t have loaner, they provided a rental car. After a few times, they now offer a loaner without us asking. Call HQ are start working with them. In our case, HQ initiated conversation with us, but that’s independent of loaner.

 

[JejuSoul]

"getting new packs... not the remanufactured packs." Where are you getting this information about the new packs coming from Korea?

1. From the posts by Edman98 above and on the previous page.
2. Guessing that lengthy delay was due to the sail time from Korea, not the road trip from from Texas.
3. Misreading the parts required list.

The new battery is listed with an R. 37510-E4202R - the R signifies a re-manufactured pack.
So I am no longer sure about the new packs. Edman98 can you tell us how you know it is a new pack.
Waiting for more info.

-

For reference a couple of years ago when I got a warranty replacement this was the sticker on the wooden box containing the new cells.

 

[edman98]

1. From the posts by Edman98 above and on the previous page.
2. Guessing that lengthy delay was due to the sail time from Korea, not the road trip from from Texas.
3. Misreading the parts required list.

View attachment 11

The new battery is listed with an R. 37510-E4202R - the R signifies a re-manufactured pack.
So I am no longer sure about the new packs. Edman98 can you tell us how you know it is a new pack.
Waiting for more info.

-

For reference a couple of years ago when I got a warranty replacement this was the sticker on the wooden box containing the new cells.

View attachment 12

Traveling, was told was a new battery pack. Will look paperwork and advise shortly.

 

[JejuSoul]

Traveling, was told was a new battery pack. Will look paperwork and advise shortly.

Thanks Edman. It makes sense that these are new cells. The whole point of this recall is to replace old E400 cells because there is a fire risk.

I've updated my list why I think these are new packs.

1. From the posts by Edman98 above and on the previous page. He was told this.
2. Guessing that lengthy delay was due to the sail time from Korea, not the road trip from the Texas battery repair plant..
3. The range data reported here is normal for a battery replacement with new E400 cells. ( But not a re-manufactured pack.)
4. It makes sense that these are new cells. The whole point of this recall is to replace old E400 cells because there is a fire risk.

And the reasons for doubt

1. The parts required list shows 37510-E4202R - the R signifies a re-manufactured pack.

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There is also a second possibility for doubt about the cells. Maybe some people think that the production for new E400 cells in North America has been transferred to the new SK battery factory in Commerce, Georgia. I think this is unlikely. The E400 is NMC 622 whereas the new plant makes E600's which are NMC 811. The US cells are a different size and chemistry. There is no way they could be put into our cars as a simple replacement.

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[FLKiaEV]

When I had my battery replaced on my 2016 Soul EV the Kia Customer Care person (Linda. She was awesome) specifically told me that the new cell pack was being "built" in Korea and that once they accumulated a certain number of packs they would ship the whole lot to their warehouse in the US to be tested and then passed onto the dealership. This was during the pandemic so the whole process took almost nine months.

 

[Nedhastings]

Ok it looks like my replacement battery was also 37510 E4202R.

UPDATE since the new/remanufactured pack was installed, 2 months without problems and it’s now back in EV light/limp mode. I’m dropping it off to the dealer tomorrow.

 

[JejuSoul]

37510 E4202R. is definitely a re-manufactured pack. :- Kia 37510E4202R REMAN PACK ASSY-BATT
The price listed here is US $1763.50. The cost of a pack with new cells is $17020.13

​

Why is Kia doing this?
Replacing old cells that are potentially a fire hazard with other old cells that have the same potential problem.
If it's purely for the cost this seems a false economy.
Why are these replacement packs failing again so soon after being 'fixed'.

 

[IanL]

Could the reman. pack be new E400 cells in a re-used housing?

 

[FLKiaEV]

37510 E4202R. is definitely a re-manufactured pack. :- Kia 37510E4202R REMAN PACK ASSY-BATT
The price listed here is US $1763.50. The cost of a pack with new cells is $17020.13

View attachment 15​

Why is Kia doing this?
Replacing old cells that are potentially a fire hazard with other old cells that have the same potential problem.
If it's purely for the cost this seems a false economy.
Why are these replacement packs failing again so soon after being 'fixed'.

On the invoice I got from the dealer after my pack was replaced it listed the cost of the pack at just under $9000US. I thought it was new, but at that price maybe not. In any case, after it was replaced I had no issues with it (until the vehicle was totaled 5 months later in a crash on the highway and I ended up getting a 2018 Soul EV).

 

[uspurs]

Could the reman. pack be new E400 cells in a re-used housing?

Have to say that this is what I presumed to be happening when the pack in our '17 was replaced with a reman.

 

[uspurs]

We just received the notification for the EPB recall (SC287); when I went to the dealer portal to book an appointment, it also showed that SC267 is pending - this is the E400 battery recall, I believe.
We only had a replacement - remanufactured - battery pack installed end of July; whilst the GOM hasn't recalibrated, we have been happy withthe range.
I would add that we did receive the interim notice of a possible battery recall last year, but nothing after that.

 

[JejuSoul]

Could the reman. pack be new E400 cells in a re-used housing?

Anything is possible, We can't know without physically opening the pack.
But the cost of a re-manufactured pack is ten times less than a new one. New cells are far more expensive than old.
The best case is the possibility that this is somehow a loss leader for the battery repair plant.
The worst case is that the battery repair plant is doing nothing at all other than sticking a new label on the outside of the old pack.
I highly doubt both of these extremes.
I assume they are opening the pack, removing bad modules, and adding modules that are in similar not-so-bad condition.

Similar to this battery repair plant in Australia

 

[Nedhastings]

I am really disappointed that my remanufactured battery tripped the monitoring system. I love my car aside from the battery issue.

It’s now at the dealership for the diagnostics, and I don’t get a rental until they identify the problem.

 

[jray3]

Gosh @Nedhastings, that doesn't seem to make sense. You should get a loaner/rental vehicle the moment you turn in the car for warranty work, not when they get around to a diagnosis! I demanded a 'premium 5 seat SUV' in return for my top trim SOUL in order to run up their rental bill and remain a priority, and did indeed get a pretty quick turnaround on the battery replacement...

 

[JejuSoul]

YouTube channel Transport Evolved has a Soul EV that is in the garage for this recall.
There are many previous videos on this channel about their Bolt EV getting a replacement battery due to a similar recall.



This channel will obviously get far more views than this thread, which is unfortunate because she spreads some rather dubious
analysis on why this is occurring. She guesses

1. The Soul EV recall is due to a faulty battery separator.
2. SK's problem may be the same as LG's.
3. SK may have stolen the tech from LG.

I find this analysis dubious because SK developed the E400 cell many years before the legal battles in the US between LG and SK.
LG sued SK because SK poached the Volkswagen contract in the US from LG.
The E400 cell pre-existed this and is not related to the Volkswagen contract.
Similarly the separator used by SK is made by a completely different firm than the one for LG.

For more info why I think their analysis is wrong see :-
Comparing Battery Chemistries
LG sues SK, alleges stolen trade secrets used to make Kia Niro and future VW batteries
SK Innovation doubles EV battery production
-------
This is a screenshot from the video showing the error message you get when the recall software detects a problem.
There are also many other reasons why this error might be triggered.
But if you get it just after the recall, it's safe to assume it means a bad HV battery.