Charging Fault error.

[SiLiZiUMM]

I started gathering information about OBC failure on the Kia Soul EV. If your OBC failed and was replaced, please help me by filling this form. The only required fields are your serial number and model year. The serial number is the last 5 digits from your Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). I'll post results here at some point. Thanks!

https://goo.gl/forms/lOpXcoDjC3wJply12


Note: don't hesitate to sent me translation corrections, all were mostly done using Google Translate so.. :mrgreen:

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

There's a new OBC part it seems, with QQK ending (link: https://www.kiapartsnow.com/genuine/kia-0~364000e040qqk.html?Make=Kia&Model=Soul&Year=2015&Submodel=&Filter=() )

Someone here in Québec just got his OBC replaced with it.

Other interesting facts, I spoke with my deaership today about the OBC. They are saying that Kia doesn't tell them anything about the OBC, which is typical they say. They just have to order the part and install it. They knew about the new part when ordering because the part was changed. They have no details about it, nor what is the cause (and the fix it provides). At first Kia gathered the original OBC to examine them, now they don't do it anymore. Technical Director says that the main OBC problem that requires an OBC replacement is for vehicles with mfg date between January 2015 and November 2015, but there seems to have more than one problem. They usually see the same fault code on GDS.

Another interesting fact he gave me, roughly half the Soul EV sold here in Québec City needed at least one OBC replacement, we are talking about 51 units. He had a Kia training last week and spoke with other dealerships from Montreal area, and the failure rate is way higher here in Québec City (we have also a colder climate).

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

First results of the survey so far are in after one week. I've got 31 unique answers so far from all around the world (thanks everyone!). The sample size is still very small so I still need your help to ask people to fill this survey. The best would be around 380 answers.

Hypotesis:

• Soul EV population size should be roughly around 24,000 units worldwide at the moment
• There may be more than one problem affecting the OBC, causing it to fail (as specified in my previous post).

Data

• Number of unique answers : 31
• Margin of error: based on a confidence level of 95%, population size and sample size : 17.6%

Canadians did fill the survey more than others as I know that there is a lot of OBC failure cases in Norway. Canada is very big, but Soul EV is only sold in B-C, Ontatio and Québec.

Sequence number were grouped by 1000 units in this graph. It doesn't seems that one group is more affected than the others. But then again, this is a small sample vs population size.

Unsurprisingly, MY2016 is more affected in the results. This can be easily explained, as there is more or less 4,500 MY2015 units. I don't have the exact number of MY2016 but it should be more than 12,000.

Failure date by year now, most of the users got their failure this year. 2015 was expected to be low.

Failure date by month is more interesting, I don't have any data in June, July and September. It's still early to tell, but failures seems to occur mostly during colder months. This could be explained by the temperature difference theory.


Comments
A lot of people left comments in the comment box, some are very interesting.

• A lot of people report more than one failure. 2 is quite common, I've even got a report of 4 times.
• One specifically commented that his failure happened during cold weather (-10C to -12C)
• One user in Slovenia reported that even if his OBC did not fail, it was replaced because of a recall, "160060" - replacement of on board charger.
• One user reported that his OBC was changed 2 times. Second time was because the replacement OBC failed due to missing weld

Please don't hesitate if you have more ideas on statistics to do with this data. And please share the link so that we can get more data samples!

 

[biffidum]

Well, chalk another Soul up for a replacement OBC. No cost to me, but an inconvenience.
2016 with 23,000km's on it. Has not been through a summer yet. I use a level 2 Eaton charger at home primarily. Never tried the chadmo thingy as there are none nearby. Actually, there are no chargers nearby at all (Niagara ON, Canada). Pretty EV backward here, then again that might explain why >30% of the population here owns a pickup truck.

I'm hoping we get more range with a new OBC. The battery was not going to 100% for a while now and I was only getting 142km's per charge... not bad actually, but hey why not hope for more Especially since I am running performance rims and tires.

 

[JejuSoul]

... The battery was not going to 100% for a while now ...

Hope they fix your problem quickly. What was your battery charging to and how do you know?

The survey for collecting data is still open - https://goo.gl/forms/lOpXcoDjC3wJply12

----------------------------------------------------

There is a new version of the OBC. Came out with the M odel Year 2018s this month.

First a brand new 2017 from last month. It is labelled 20th March 2017. The car left the factory in April.



Below a brand new 2018 from yesterday. It is labelled 28th April 2017. The car left the factory on 17th May.



So the new version Q14.1R started in April 2017.
The part number has changed from 36400-0E040 to 36400-0E045
The QQK ones seen in Quebec must be for replacements not new parts.

 

[biffidum]

We drive the car the same distance most days and temperature definitely plays a role but our range did not recover as it should with warmer weather.

Basically, once the new OBC was installed we went from 142km to 152km range. Not a lot, but better than a kick in the nuts.

My wife just got an error today that said "failed to restart...,blah blah. She couldn't remember. After restarting the car it was fine. Hmm.

 

[JejuSoul]

-
Here is a letter sent by the Quebec Soul EV Facebook user group to Kia Canada.

St-Sauveur, May 25th 2017

Object: Kia Soul EV and On-Board C harger (OBC)

To whom it may concern,
I am the moderator of the Facebook group Kia Soul EV-Québec. The group has more than 1,000 members owners of a Kia Soul EV whom are commonly referred to as Kouls. As their representative, I wish to denounce an inacceptable situation that has gone on for far too long.
The problem concerns the Soul EV’s on-board c harger (OBC), a problem well known by Kia. Since the beginning of the commercialization of the electric model, the customers have been plagued by the breakdown of this essential piece of hardware. In all cases, the OBC needs to be replaced. This recurring problem is also known by Kia dealers who have started warning their clients that, while the part is currently functional, it will inevitably break down and will need replacing. In face of this apparent certainty, it is impossible for us customers to proceed with the repair in advance and forego a ton of complications.
Please imagine the insecurity of an owner who knows that the OBC will breakdown, preventing him or her from charging the vehicle, but not the place nor the time when it will happen. This is further complicated by the fact that the owner in question might be far from home, on business or on vacation. Not knowing when and where he or she be without his or her vehicle for a number of days for repairs is a great source of anxiety. Will it be possible to repair the vehicle swiftly? How can that person return home safely if he or she is 100 km away? 200 km? 300 km? Will he or she be able to pick up his or her children from daycare? How will he or she be able to recover the Soul EV? All these legitimate questions could be avoided if Kia would agree to solve the problem before it happened.
Furthermore, it is a forgone conclusion that the resale value of the Soul EV will be impacted by this, whether it is through commercial sales or through private ones. Who can trust this product? Doesn’t this affect Kia’s brand as a reliable company? It is our belief that an owner is entitled not only to a reliable vehicle, but also to a reasonable resale value.
By its inaction Kia is demonstrating grand indifference to its clientele, an act unbecoming of its brand and reputation. It reinforces the common perception that EVs are unreliable vehicles based on unproven technologies, a perception that slows the market penetration of EVs. For owners of the Soul EV, early adopters of the technology, this is perceived as contempt by Kia and a denial of responsibility.
In this context, we believe legitimate:
That Kia provides concrete and clear explanations as to the source and nature of the OBC failures and its predictability;
That Kia provides means by which an owner might prevent the failure from occurring if available;
That Kia assumes it responsibility by automatically replacing the OBC on all Soul EVs touched by this problem and therefore provide customers peace of mind and reasonable assurance in the quality of the product;
Finally, that Kia provides an unlimited 10-year warranty on the OBC.
It is our wish to, not only be heard, but also that our request be judged reasonable and answered quickly. We think it would be regrettable to bring our case before the court of public opinion and to the customer protection media as this could damage Kia’s reputation and integrity.
Sincerely,

Richard Trudeau

 

[JejuSoul]

-
And here is the reply by Kia Canada to the letter above.

Dear Mr. Trudeau,

Thank you for your letter on your concerns about our OBC. It is important for us to stay connected with our customers and we want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to address your concerns.

The data we have do not show the alarming failure rate that you are describing in your letter. However, giving the fact that we both want the EVs to succeed, we take your concerns seriously and have actively begun an investigation on the matter.

Meanwhile, our 5 years or 100 000 km warranty applies to all our vehicles. We believe that the concern that some members of you Facebook group have about the OBC will be fixed under warranty, free of charge. If failure happens under warranty, Kia Roadside Assistance is also available to tow the car to the nearest Kia EV dealership.

We appreciate your patience and hope that we will continue to support the growth of EVs together.

The original French is

 

[GizmoEV]

I thought I had the OBC go out on my Blue 2016 Soul EV+. This evening I went out to plug in my car and the charge door wouldn't open. I thought a fuse maybe blew. I didn't pull any fuses but I did turn the fuse switch off then on but nothing changed. I turned the car to accessory mode then powered on and everything appeared to work just fine but the charging door still wouldn't open. I finally opened the hood and manually opened the charging door. When I plugged in the car, however, instead of the usual center light blinking all three started blinking! I went and got my tablet and checked that Torque Pro did in fact connect to the car and give readings like normal except for a very small negative battery current value which would indicate a slight bit of charging but the OBC values stayed at zero. The 12V battery voltage was at about 12.5V so that wasn't the issue. I even hooked up my LiFePO4 battery which was at 13.3V and it didn't make a difference on the behavior. I contemplated going the CHAdeMO charger about 13 miles away but with only 26 miles range I didn't want to risk getting stranded there or at the bottom of my 2 mile hill with a dead EV if I couldn't even charge with the CHAdeMO. Since the dash was staying black I decided to try disconnecting the 12V battery for a little while. When I connected it back up and plugged in the car it immediately began to charge as if the timer over ride switch was on. I unplugged it and plugged it in again and now it seems to be acting normally again. There must be a software bug somewhere and a hard reboot fixed it.

I know this isn't an OBC failure like I had on my 2016 White Soul EV+ but I thought I'd post it for the record and incase someone else runs into a similar issue.

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

My dealership here in Québec City (Canada) posted an official statement about the OBC replacement:

It is not an official recall, but it's at least an acknowledgement of the problem.

Rough English translation (the French one is not that good, probably automatically translated from English):

Subject: On board charger replacement (OBC)

Kia announced the replacement of the On Board Charger (OBC) on certain Soul vehicles (PSEV), on which the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) would turn on and which had a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) (P1CF5 or P1CF6) due to the charging time of the battery by the onboard charger (OBC).

Cause : bad electrical contact

Solution: Change the OBC with the new QQK piece

Affected vehicles: Soul (PSEV) produced from June 30, 2015 to January 28, 2016
Part name: GROUPE 5OBC
Old part number: 36400 0E040
New part number: 36400 0E040QQK

 

[nibularr]

i wonder what they will do for people that had their OBC replaced already

 

[DaveZsoulEV]

I just joined this forum because my 2016 Soul EV just gave me a charger fault notice with level 1 and 2 charging. A quick charge worked fine. Taking my car in to the dealer now and I'll keep you posted with the results.
DaveZ

 

[nibularr]

<span>I just joined this forum because my 2016 Soul EV just gave me a charger fault notice with level 1 and 2 charging. A quick charge worked fine. Taking my car in to the dealer now and I'll keep you posted with the results.</span>
DaveZ

hopefully they give you one of the new ones.

 

[notfred]

Just got back from my 2 year service and they are ordering me a new OBC. The write up on the service sheet says

00K1ZZ?
PS EV - OBC Logic Improvement & Inspection & Replacement

I understand that this is a firmware flash plus an inspect and then replace if necessary. My car is a 2016 so right in the middle of all the ones that have had an OBC failure. While I haven't seen any issues yet (cross fingers) they have ordered a new OBC for it part number 364000E040QQK which matches with the earlier post.

I'll take pictures before and after of the labels.

I'm in Ottawa, so not quite Quebec, but not far off!

 

[notfred]

Well that was a mess up!

The charger was in on Tuesday so I dropped the car off on Wednesday. Finally got it back on Wednesday late afternoon and apparently after talking it over with Kia Technical the dealership was told to NOT install the new OBC. So that was a waste of time. To add insult to injury the dealership had forgotten to reinstall the fuse cover - finally got that back when they dropped it off at my place of work on Friday afternoon.

I just wish there was another Soul EV certified dealer near by, unfortunately there isn't :evil:

 

[DaveZsoulEV]

As I wrote before, I had a charger fault notice on my 2016 Soul. Took it to my Kia dealer in Branford CT. After confirming I couldn't charge the car they bought me a rental for three days. They kept the car for only two days and replaced the OBC. Everything has been OK since then. When I asked the service mgr how many other Souls have had this problem he stated this was the first one he has seen. That's why they had to call Kia tech service hotline for additional diagnostics and a fix.

 

[nibularr]

did they give you one of the QQK part # OBC?

 

[Midtowner]

Looks like I just joined the "club". 1700 miles on a 2017 Soul EV+ (10/2016 manufacture date). Charging lights on top of dashboard would not light up when plugged in with a ChargePoint Level 2 charger at home a week ago. Received "Charger Error" this morning after being plugged in prior evening with charging lights blinking as normal. OEM-supplied Level 1 charge does not work today. Same for home Level 2 charger. Set up appointment at Capitol Kia (San Jose, CA) for October 5th. :|

 

[nibularr]

yikes 2017 now too
let us know if thats what they determine it to be

 

[Midtowner]

Failed onboard charger diagnosed by Capitol Kia. Replaced and back in service within one day under warranty. Jonathan in service was great by the way. So happy that I got my Soul back!