Range from 100% Charge Dropping

[ourmuskokalife]

We have the 2016 Soul UV Luxury and have been experiencing a significant drop in the range since picking up the car in July. The day we picked it up at Richmond Hill Kia the car was fully charged and had a range of 186km. We drove it home to Muskoka with a stop in Barrie to top off the charge, it was 170km trip but driving at 100km in Power vs Eco range. We have never seen that range appear again. It was around 160 for a while then down to 150, a few weeks ago at 100% in the morning it was 136 and today after not being used since Friday evening, it was fully charged to 100% and the range was 129km!!! The heat was off, the sounds system was off. We drive from Muskoka to Barrie daily which is 140km round trip and have a 220 30amp Bosch charger to charge while at work. Has anyone experienced this?

 

[ourmuskokalife]

I have figured out the answer to my own question. I can see why people get range anxiety especially when there's more that one user driving the car. My partner drives it to work Monday to Friday driving the highway almost all the way at 90-110km. I may jump in it for a something in the evening or on the weekend and see the diminishing range not realizing that its adapted to his driving patterns and high power consumption. It is funny because he drives a set path pretty much everyday, I just like to go for a random trip on a Saturday afternoon to where ever and the entire time he's looking over looking at the range worried if we will make it. I wanted to drive from Muskoka to Powerstream in Vaughan just to checkout the CHAdeMO charger and drive back, he won't go with me, he's too worried we wouldn't make it. Is there a way to reset the Range Guessing Indicator? What happens if we decide to sell the car, how do you convince a buyer that the range is up to XXX why YYY is glaring at you on the dash?

 

[JejuSoul]

Is there a way to reset the Range Guessing Indicator? What happens if we decide to sell the car, how do you convince a buyer that the range is up to XXX why YYY is glaring at you on the dash?

Drive to top of high mountain. Push reset button on the trip meter. Descend.

 

[ourmuskokalife]

Is there a way to reset the Range Guessing Indicator? What happens if we decide to sell the car, how do you convince a buyer that the range is up to XXX why YYY is glaring at you on the dash?

Drive to top of high mountain. Push reset button on the trip meter. Descend.

Find one high enough and drive in B mode and may get the range up to 800 km.

 

[JeroenE]

Drive to top of high mountain. Push reset button on the trip meter. Descend.

As far as I know this does not reset the range meter; it should calculate the range using the last 20 (or something) trips. So if you ahve someone who drives fairly fast -even once in a while- it will get your range down.

In my case it actually worked the other way around. When I got the car the range used to say things like 110km. Last week it started to show 140-144. But I usually drive only 100 km/h.

The change in range is very slow though (and sometimes I drive faster or someone else drove differently than I do).

I think some people even call it the guessometer and actually use a factor to calculate how far they can go on longer trips.

So far I think it is rather accurate, providing you drive the same style all the time. Obviously this is not always possible due to dense traffic, accidents, strong headwind etc. Even though you can get lots of warnings (depending on your settings) you can easily drive the car up to the last few miles. So far I haven't tried turtle mode yet, but een then you can drive a (very short) distance.If you take heed of different circumstances than usual you can drive anywhere you want.

My main worry is not the range but that a charging station I'm driving to is in use by someone else or blocked by an ICE car.

 

[JejuSoul]

Hmm, no high mountains in the Netherlands makes my previous suggestion hard to test.
option 2: constant climate of 21c. Sell the car in a month with this temp.
I have had my car 6 months. The best range (195km) I got was in October when the weather was mild (daytime 24c, nights 18c).
The range has been going down the last two weeks (180 km) as the temps have got cooler. (daytime 20c, nights 14c).
I was getting about 165km in the summer when the weather was warmer. (daytime 28c, nights 28c)

Note the average speed of my driving is 32km/h. Slower speeds also boost range.
The fastest road on the island has a speed limit of 80km/h.

 

[Ever]

Just like everyone is saying the range will depend on your driving habits. When I drive to work on the highways (100km/h) Monday to Friday I get a full range of about 145-50km, but when I drive around town on weekends and stay away from the highways I'll get 160-170km on Monday morning after it's fully charged again.

The most I've gone on one charge was 185km with about 5-7% left doing all city stop-and-go driving. So I would have made 190km+ if I had enough nerve to go to 1%.

 

[JeroenE]

Hmm, no high mountains in the Netherlands makes my previous suggestion hard to test.

Yes, unfortunately our country does not look like this...

option 2: constant climate of 21c. Sell the car in a month with this temp.

In my case it would be more helpful to turn it off. Unless it is in the middle of winter and actually cold to prevent freezing. Last winters were very mild.

The range has been going down the last two weeks (180 km) as the temps have got cooler. (daytime 20c, nights 14c).

Here the temperature has been rising a bit (which it should not do, but still does). It's true that colder weather means less range. The same goes for ICE cars, btw. My previous cars always needed more fuel in the winter than in the summer. Of course a lot of this is just physics. Colder air is denser so you need more power to get at the "normal" speed when driving your car.

Because the Soul is not the most streamlined car there is it will take a harder hit when the air gets denser compared to less boxy cars.

Note the average speed of my driving is 32km/h. Slower speeds also boost range.
The fastest road on the island has a speed limit of 80km/h.

Right, my average speed during commute is around 80 km/h

BTW, this is my mileage:

 

[SoulSister]

We have a 2015 Soul EV and have experienced exactly the same problem. 100% charge on purchase in June was in 180s. Within a few weeks we only saw 170s, then, occasionally in the 160s. Another few weeks and no more 170s. Consistent 160s and then 150s started to show up. This trend continued through the summer - during a heat wave - and we are now at a consistent 100% in the 120s with 118 showing up twice last week.

We have had several discussions with our dealership, Kia West, and took the car to them this week. They said it's temperature related and that they were able to get it up to 150s. That was a blatant lie as the car was at 120 when we picked it up and indicated it was at 96% charge. There is no way the linear decline in 100% charge is temperature related as the straight line drop continued during a heat wave in the summer. There is no correlation between temperature and charge capacity.

Our dealership told us to speak to Kia Canada and the KTech folks as it's their problem and they are the ones insisting that this is a temperature issue. There was also some nonsense about the battery pulling charge to maintain a consistent temperature. However, that also does not apply as the 100% charge issues happens when the car is plugged in so whether the battery is pulling charge is irrelevant.

The drop in 100% charge has become a huge issue as I have nearly run out of power several times now just tooling around the city. I don't have time to stop and charge the car during my busy day. At 160km or more for a 100% charge, I could make it through a day and charge at home, or make it to a destination where I was staying for several hours and charge. But not at 120km.

We are very frustrated with Kia's lack of training and knowledge about their EVs. If you're going to start selling a new class of vehicle, you'd better know how to service the things and understand issues related to the new technology.

 

[GizmoEV]

As the temperature has dropped, short runs without heating the cabin while plugged in, stormy windy weather, and high speed trips on the freeway at 120km/h (74mph) has lowered the range on ours to about the same as yours (76 mi = 122km). I reset the average efficiency meter at the start of November (I turned off the auto reset feature) and we went from 3.6mi/kWh to 3.3-3.2 mi/kWh (~18.8kWh/100km).

We are very frustrated with Kia's lack of training and knowledge about their EVs. If you're going to start selling a new class of vehicle, you'd better know how to service the things and understand issues related to the new technology.

While this is true, the burden also falls on the user to learn about and understand the technology. The difficulty with the OEM telling you how the car will perform is that it all depends on how it is driven. For example, my wife has a 2.5mi (4km) trip to work, then a 2.5mi trip back home. She didn't have the pre-heating turned on so extra energy was used from the battery to heat the cabin. This lowered the efficiency to 3.3mi/kWh. I then went on a long trip on the freeway at 60mph (97km/h). When I started the range meter said I didn't have enough to make it to my preferred charge station. Before I arrived at the closer DCFC station I clearly had plenty of range to reach the one I wanted and made the distance with plenty of extra range. Why? Because I was driving significantly more efficiently than the short trips my wife usually takes. How can an OEM predict that?

Remember, that every 2 minutes of charging at 6.6kW will add over 1km of range. Maybe your daily routine can be adjusted enough to include a charge stop or two.

 

[SoulSister]

I think there is some confusion over what the actual issue is. I am not talking about range. And, by the way, this user family has a pretty darn good understanding of the technology as my husband has a Master's of electrical engineering. We completely understanding that conditions and driving may impact the range. I'm not talking about range. I'm talking about the total charge that the battery registers as 100%. When we first purchased the car the 100% charge was up in the 180 kms. Not 100% charge is under 120km. Nothing to do with the range, although that 100% charge surely impacts the range that is possible regardless of conditions or driving habits.

 

[JejuSoul]

I'm talking about the total charge that the battery registers as 100%.

For a new car when the the State of Charge says 100% that means you have 27kWh energy in the battery.
We haven't got any data yet for a car that has less than this.
There is a discussion about this on the Battery Ageing Model Thread.

 

[tractioninc]

I've had my Soul for seven months and have driven it about 7,000 miles (11,000 km).

Off the showroom floor, my indicated available range was 115 miles. I charge to 100% each night, and my indicated available range quickly fell to about 105 miles. Lately my indicated available range is about 95 miles (or less!). Worrying, right? However...

I've been driving the same weekday commute since I first picked up the car. My daily efficiency varies from day to day but tends to average about 4.0 mi/kWh. Similarly, I begin my daily commute with 100% charge and end with 61-62% charge. This was true in May and it's true now in November.

So as long as I'm driving the same route each day, and each day I'm consuming the same 38-39% of charge, and my daily efficiency continues to hover around 4.0 mi/kWh, I'm really not that worried that my indicated available range has fallen by nearly 20%.

 

[GizmoEV]

I think there is some confusion over what the actual issue is. I am not talking about range. And, by the way, this user family has a pretty darn good understanding of the technology as my husband has a Master's of electrical engineering. We completely understanding that conditions and driving may impact the range. I'm not talking about range. I'm talking about the total charge that the battery registers as 100%. When we first purchased the car the 100% charge was up in the 180 kms. Not 100% charge is under 120km. Nothing to do with the range, although that 100% charge surely impacts the range that is possible regardless of conditions or driving habits.

I'm not trying to be difficult but if what you say is true then you really don't have a question and just want to talk to see how others will answer. However, if you really believe what you just said then you don't understand batteries. I don't doubt your husbands degree but this isn't about that.

The charge registered at 100% hasn't changed. The amount of energy stored at 100% is still there, too. (There is a difference between charge (Ah) and energy (kWh), though the average person often treats them the same.) It is just that the car now has more current use rate data and has adjusted the calculation of estimated range. At best this is a guess, hence the term guess-o-meter that some of us EV drivers like to call it. The battery meter and the % charge are measured items, no guessing. The range remaining is a calculated item based on past usage. For the US market Soul EVs the EPA range is 93 miles so when I picked up our Soul EV+ and it said 106 miles range at 100% charge I knew that was optimistic. It was based on a mere 23 miles of driving. I don't know what the European test cycle is but what I have seen others report it is even more optimistic than the US EPA rating. If you drive your EV in exactly the same way and with the same conditions as your country's test cycle you will get the rated range. If any thing is different then you will get a different range. It is that simple.

To reiterate, don't confuse the energy stored in the battery with the calculated or actual driving range of the car as you have done in the quote above.

 

[GizmoEV]

Off the showroom floor, my indicated available range was 115 miles. ...

So as long as I'm driving the same route each day, and each day I'm consuming the same 38-39% of charge, and my daily efficiency continues to hover around 4.0 mi/kWh, I'm really not that worried that my indicated available range has fallen by nearly 20%.

Then you are getting about the EPA rated range. Great! If you were to drive until the car stopped then you would know how close the guess-o-meter is.

I do wonder though, how are you getting 4.0 mi/kWh and not seeing 108 mi range on the meter? You should be around 3.5 mi/kWh if you are only seeing about 93 mi range. Have you reset the efficiency counter or is it cumulative over that whole 7k miles?

 

[tractioninc]

I manually reset the in-dash efficiency counter almost every time I get in the car, and check my Driving History screen a couple of times a week.

 

[irfca]

My range has been shifting all over the map ... from as low as 120k at 100% to as much as 160km, over the past month or so. Temperature does seem to have an effect, and most definitely driving habits / behaviour.

The best advice I have read, is to pick a benchmark, and measure to that mark. As suggested elsewhere, the first range bar tends to be a good benchmark - it seems to drop at 87% charge. That drop also happens to coincide with one of the few lights I have in the first 3/4 of my drive to work. I have been regularly observing that that drop occurs within +/- a few hundred meters of that intersection, and it has not been decreasing in the 8 months / 25,000km, since I got the car. The conditions have to be reasonably consistent - extreme wind, rain, and using the heating/cooling system can affect it. But other than those observable aspects, that point does not vary, even though the guess-o-meter range has been varying ~25%.

The other approach I have taken on some of the low range estimate days, is to reset the trip meter, take note of the stated range, and track it ... I've seen a difference of as much as 50% ... I travel 30km, but only "consume" 20km of the stated range - I've had 2 occasions of leaving home where I had 50% of the battery, and a range less than I need for the round trip ... but it is a run I make twice per week for kids' sports ... I know it takes 40% battery for the round trip, so I don't care what the range states, I know I have a 10% buffer.

So, pick a reference point (or two or three) and monitor to that/those points ... don't get too hung up on the indicated range. Also know the battery need for your most common trips.

 

[PhilinYVR]

I have been having the same problem as SoulSister and this thread has helped me understand a few things.

When I bought the 2015 Soul EV it started off with a estimated range of around 170km. That estimated range slowly degraded over months; last week it was down to 105km which is starting to become a challenge. The weekly driving pattern has been pretty consistent since purchase (end of May 2015) and the reduction seemed to be pretty linear, although I have to admit I did not plot it out so I am lacking a bunch of hard data. I am now starting to pay more attention to daily efficiency. For example in November it ranged from 18.4kWHr/100km to 20kWHr/100km. I'm going to be doing some experimentation over the next couple of weeks to see how to increase that efficiency.

With all that said I reset the efficiency computer today and the estimated 100% charge range is 122km. I'm not sure what I should expect here.
Question #1: If you reset the computation that determines estimated range, should the car show 160km+ like it did when I purchased it? If not, can anyone explain why?

On a side note, I have a friend who bought a Soul EV the same day I did and has a similar driving pattern each week. He still sees estimated ranges in the 140-150km range (in November), and in the summer he saw higher (160-180km). This makes me suspect something else is going on with my car -- something with the capacity of the battery itself.

Question #2: Does anyone know how to separate an analysis of efficiency (how I operate the vehicle) which impacts the estimated range (consumption side) from potential battery capacity issues which would also impact estimated range (supply side)? Are there service tests for this?

I think I can improve how efficiently I operate the vehicle, but I also believe something else is going on with this car and my best guess is that it's something with a faster-than-expected degradation of the battery itself. If anyone has any suggestions on how to isolate this, please let me know. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[Leafer]

It seems a Tony Williams style autonomy range test is needed (Search this forum for "Autonomy" or "Williams".)

 

[ourmuskokalife]

Saturday
Level 1 Overnight charge from 40% to 100%, previous charge Level 2 for 34% to 100%. Temp -2 to +4, climate control on and off set at 23c, B Mode, ECO ON, Speed 40-60 for 19 km, Speed 75-85km for 103.3km. Total km 118.73. Battery Level at was 1% and rolled into charge at home in Turtle Mode.

Typically Monday to Friday daily commute starts with battery at 100% after an overnight Level 1 charge. Morning commute 78 km, 73km on the highway at an average of 100km/h to 35-43% range and charged with Level 2 30a charger to 100% return trio the same possibly with a stop along the way.

Energy efficiency ranges from 13.2kWh/100km to 15.4kWh/100km in town with one strange trip of 1.29km at 37.9kWh/100km and 18.2kWh/100km to 19.4kWh/100km on the highway.

Saturday shows that the range estimated, is what it is as I wasn't going any further.