Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

[GreenEnvy22]

Hi all,
I live near Toronto, and have a 60km each direction commute, almost all highway. So 120km round trip. I only drive that whole distance 1-2 times a week, as we have a carpool so I often drive less than half that distance, sometimes only like 5km.

I'd like to go the electric route, but not looking to majorly affect my budget as we just had a 3rd kid. My thought is that I currently spend about $200/month on gas, so if I were to get a used EV and have roughly $200/month payments, it's mostly a wash.

My workplace has said I can hookup a car to an available 120V outlet for free, and our carpool lot also has free chargers at it. If I wanted to have a 240V outlet added at work, they would be fine with that if I paid for it to be installed, but I'm not sure I need it.

We would still have a second vehicle (minivan) for longer distance driving, and maybe for the odd time charging or range would be an issue for me (super cold winter day like -20 C). I could take the van that day and leave the EV for my wife.

I'm seeing several 2016 Soul EV's with 120-130,000 km on them for sale around $11-12,000 Canadian. This would work out to right around $200/month if I finance for 4 years, with tradein or sale of my current car.

With 130,000 on it, I still have maybe 2 years of battery warranty before I hit the 160,000 limit.

Any thoughts on if this is a good or bad idea? does that high mileage sound risky? I'd try to get a state of health report on the battery from a Kia dealer before purchase if possible. I also do have a bluetooth OBD2 reader and torque pro I could try looking with.

Thanks for any input.

 

[rscamp]

I'm also looking at getting a used Soul EV. I have one I am interested in and if I buy it will be in the next week or so. So I might have more information to offer soon.

The mileage will affect warranty and some wear items like brakes, but I'd be more concerned about battery health because it can be determined as much by treatment as by mileage. Definitely get a report on the battery health from an EV certified Kia dealer.

Being in Ontario, are you aware of the Plug 'n Drive Incentive program for used EVs purchased from anywhere that will be plated in Ontario? It is worth a $1k CDN rebate if you sign up, test drive an EV at the Electric Vehicle Discover Centre, attend an "EV 101" Seminar and buy a used EV. You get a certificate that along with proof of ownership and insurance gets you the rebate. I can provide more info via PM. I would also suggest joining EV Society and attending some local chapter meetings to rub shoulders with other knowledgeable EV owners.

 

[rscamp]

Hi all,
I live near Toronto, and have a 60km each direction commute, almost all highway. So 120km round trip...

You will gain about 8 km/hr when charging Level 1 at work but probably a bit less than this in winter. I'm not sure how much less - perhaps someone with more experience can comment. But if you do the math it looks like range safety margin might get a bit thin on a cold winter day when your total range on a single charge might reduce to only 90km or so. Also consider that as the battery ages, the usable range will further decrease.

 

[notfred]

With your commute, I wouldn't buy a 2016 Soul EV, I think you are pushing things too much.

I'm presuming by highway you are actually going to be travelling at ~100km/h. The Soul is a big square box and the range really suffers being driven on the highway. Also the high speed requires high power and this can wear out the battery.

Secondly I wouldn't bet on more than 100km range in winter. Toronto is warmer than Ottawa, but you still get those cold days and that really takes a bite out of the range. Charging at work would save you there.

If you were sitting on the highway in stop/go traffic then you would probably be fine, but I think you would be disappointed overall.

If you do buy any form of used electric vehicle then you need to check the battery State of Health very carefully and check if the battery warranty transfers to you.

 

[JejuSoul]

With your commute, I wouldn't buy a 2016 Soul EV, I think you are pushing things too much...

I agree. An older Soul EV about to go out of a warranty is probably not a good idea unless :
1/ you are willing to drive slower than usual,
2/ you are willing to to do without heating and cooling the cabin,
3/ you are willing to stop and charge mid-route if necessary.

Given that you are car-pooling I doubt this would appeal to the other riders in your car.

I did buy a used EV. And it does save a lot of money. My car can't drive very far or very fast, but my commute is only 10km.

 

[KeeperArtemus]

Hi all,
I live near Toronto, and have a 60km each direction commute, almost all highway. So 120km round trip. I only drive that whole distance 1-2 times a week, as we have a carpool so I often drive less than half that distance, sometimes only like 5km.

I just purchased a used 2017 Kia Soul EV+ with the 27 kW battery pack. On the way home I had a 50 mi (80 km) stretch that was all highway at 65 - 75 mph (104 - 120 kmph). I didn't use the AC or the radio to save energy. With full charge the battery only showed 76 mi (122 km) of range. Upon arriving at my destination I had 7 mi (11 km) of range remaining with a low battery warning displayed. I was getting quite nervous. Now, this was relatively high speed and it doesn't have low-rolling-resistance EV tires on so my energy use was rather high.

However, your commute would only be 60 km or 37 mi. Assuming the battery has a max of 50 mi (80 km) range, this means upon arriving at work you could possibly have 20 km remaining. That means you only need to charge at least 40 km to make it home. A level-one wall charger will charge 6 to 8 km per hour. On the conservative side, you will charge 40 km in 6 hours and 40 min. If you are sure you can always charge at work than I would say that this car could be feasible for you. Do take into account that in winter your range will be reduced. As well as if you use AC/heating. The battery will also degrade over time and range will reduce.

At worst, you may have to find a charger to stop at those 1 to 2 times a week for a short bit before heading home. If you are mostly driving just 5 km then this car will be great. If you are willing to alter your lifestyle a bit the Kia Soul EV will treat you well. You could always wait for a 2018 model or newer for increased range, but I think you could make it work now.

Just my thoughts with my experience with my Soul EV. Don't take these calculations as your real world expectations. Good luck, and let us know what you choose!

 

[beanman]

So I'm in the same boat as the OP.
I'm likely looking at some of the same vehicles he is after a bad experience trying to buy a used Leaf from a Nissan dealer.

I had a few questions, apologies if the info is already in another thread. (please point me there if you could)

1) Is the remote pre-heating/cooling functionality now available in Canada?

2) Any issues transferring the battery warranty in Canada? Would it be crazy to buy a used SoulEV knowing it was at or close to the 70% replacement level just to get a new battery?

3) There is a lot of talk on Leaf forums of the ability shortly to purchase after-market compatible battery packs for the leaf to increase the range to about 360km or was it miles... Is there any reason to think it couldn't be pulled off in a SoulEV (not with the same configuration/packs obviously)

4) Please point me to the software I need to download/buy and the Dongle I need to purchase for the ODB so I can confidentially select from available used models. (Granted I need to be able to detect a BMS reset as well....)

5) Can someone confirm if the SoulEV's battery can be replaced in parts? (i.e. sections of cells packaged in groups)

I'm looking to buy when I have free time in about 2 weeks.

I put about <20km/day on my commute each weekday, and it's my family's 2nd car. Finally replacing my 2000 Camry...... it can vote, drink, and die for this country. Most environmentally friendly thing I could do is not junk it. Found a family who could use it.

Thanks in advance. I've likely forgotten a number of questions.

 

[beanman]

Right, one more thing:

Some of these higher mileage 2016 ev's appear to have been used as taxi's in their prior life. As said as much in one of the for sale listings.

Can anyone think of any particular pros or cons regarding its use/behaviour in regards to the EV wear and tear (and hopefully the obligation of the driver/owner to keep the other parts in could repair)

Thanks again.

 

[notfred]

I think a 2016 Soul EV as a 2nd car with a ~20km commute makes an excellent vehicle - that's my setup although I bought mine new! We also tend to use this as the default car for running errands.

1) Remote pre-heat/cool is only on 2020 models in Canada.

2) Discuss with the dealer and get it in writing about if the battery warranty is transferable.

3) No technical reason aftermarket battery packs can't be made for the Soul EV, but with the lower numbers of Soul EVs vs Leaf there may not be the demand. If there is a shop specialising in EV batteries then I'm sure that they could do something.

4) There are 2 different software apps that run on Android phones that can read the battery. One is Torque Pro and then you need to add a bunch of files manually to get it to understand the Soul EV. The second is far easier and Soul Spy:
https://github.com/langemand/SoulEVSpy/blob/master/README.md

Recommended OBDII dongle is a Konnwei KW-902 Bluetooth OBD-II dongle

5) There are signs that the latest batch of battery warranty replacements have been with re-manufactured packs i.e. where they have replaced some modules in the battery. It still needs the whole pack dropping, then opening up and then modules could be replaced.

I would avoid taxis - they have probably been DC fast charged way more than a normal car.

When you are looking at the battery, you need to check out the "State of Health" or SOH. N.B. This actually starts at 110% as there is a 10% hidden part of the battery health that can be used up without the range dropping. If this is good, you then need to look at the Cumulative Charge and Discharge figures and see if those figures are close to zero - a BMS reset will reset the Cumulative Charge / Discharge to 0 and the health to 110%. If you have good health i.e. >90% and good Cumulative Charge / Discharge i.e. high numbers then the battery is good.

 

[beanman]

That's some great information, thanks.

Now I have to dig up that post I read last week last suggested new data/research (with more samples) show less/no degradation due to DC quick charge.

I ordered the Bluetooth dongle, thank you. I think it takes 8+ days to arrive and I wonder if I should visit the used car dealer without it.

Perhaps the original poster wants to DM me? Have you spoken to the dealer yet or gone for a test drive? Have you used the dongle? I'm not able to head out there for the next two weeks.

 

[edmondt]

I decided to register after seeing this post I just bought one of those taxi: 2016 KIA SOUL EV. This guy has a few of these... you can give him a call: (416) 566-8131

 

[beanman]

That's great congrats!
Which KMs did you get?
I called them yesterday and started asking questions the rep couldn't answer and said the manager would call me back.... never did.

Did you run soulspy or another app or you just took it on faith?

Could you DM the price you paid or how much of the asking you were able to go for?

Let's start a club !

 

[edmondt]

LOL I asked to get the cheapest one, and he showed me one with the dented roof.

I drive it and I feel that I can pop the hood back so I bought it... Picking it up tomorrow

It has around 130K on it... And I just signed up for the EV rebate class to get another $1,000 off (don't tell him that)

One thing with these batch is that they never did the recall, so I'm looking to setup an appointment at KIA to get things done.

He typically has the best price already and I have shopped around.

 

[JejuSoul]

-
You guys are talking about buying cars that were previously taxis.
The only taxi company that I know about in Canada that had a lot of Soul EVs was Teo Taxi in Montreal.
This company recently went bust :- Téo Taxi closes, leaving some 450 drivers unemployed
-
This is an old comment from May 2017 :- Battery Ageing Model

Here is some info on a talk by Thierry St-Cyr from Taxelco (Téo Taxi, the EV Taxi company in Montréal — http://teomtl.com). They have L eafs, Soul EVs, and T eslas in their fleet.

They are doing range testing with Téo Taxi and the IVI institute : the put the car on dynamometers and run the car to empty.

They calculate an average degradation of 2.2% every 10,000km driven However, their situation is special because most of the time they charge on DC fast c hargers (77% of the time). This is higher than the degradation we are seeing on most of our cars.

 

[beanman]

It has around 130K on it... And I just signed up for the EV rebate class to get another $1,000 off (don't tell him that)

One thing with these batch is that they never did the recall, so I'm looking to setup an appointment at KIA to get things done.

He typically has the best price already and I have shopped around.

Thanks for the info. When it's at the Kia dealer getting the recall - they might just run additional tests on the battery.

If there's a carfax report on any of them I think it should be shown as a previous commercial registration in Quebec.

I'm going to try to find that newer study I came across on a Leaf forum about a week or two ago and post it here.

 

[notfred]

One of the recalls includes flashing new firmware to the BMS which will reset the battery State Of Health to 100% until it relearns the battery's true state.

 

[EVDee]

So I'm another new member whose also noticed these for sale online and signed up so I could jump in here.

I'm hoping other buyers would be willing to share privately what they paid so I can get an idea if it's possible for me to budget this purchase earlier than I had planned. I completely understand if no one is willing, I only ask because my current vehicle is giving me grief and it'd be a massive help if I was finally able to purchase a proper replacement instead of chasing after unknown problems with this old 11 year old car, or just hoping nothing goes wrong every time I drive it anywhere..

Thanks for all the info so far!

 

[rscamp]

I think most (all?) of these cars from Teo Taxi were purchased by dealers through Adesa auctions. As former taxis, they have the issues of commercial use (high mileage, more charge cycles, etc.) and would have had the white with bright green paint jobs of the taxi company. They also had radio equipment installed and may have holes in the dash repaired etc. They likely were stripped of their accessories (i.e. cargo shelf & net for Luxury trim) and may be missing the L1 charger, tire repair kit or a key fob. The resellers should deal with these issues. Perhaps the top portions of the all-white ones have been painted so they don't look like the original taxis.

I think these former taxis can be good deals for those who have less demanding requirements and a lower budget as long as the prospective buyers take these issues into account and the price paid reflects them. I see asking prices online ranging from about $10k for a 2016 to about $22k for a 2018.

I would suggest a 2018 might be a bit safer buy simply because it would have had less time to be commercially 'abused'.

I have been looking at a 2018 that has a battery health check result of 100%. This seemed impossible to me until I saw notfred's helpful post which indicated the battery health starts at 110%.

 

[rscamp]

... And I just signed up for the EV rebate class to get another $1,000 off (don't tell him that)

This is the Plug 'n Drive Incentive program for used EVs. Anyone purchasing an EV to be registered in Ontario is eligible. I have received my certificate.

I would also suggest joining EV Society (www.evsociety.ca) and attending some local chapter meetings to rub shoulders with other knowledgeable EV owners - particularly if you are new to EVs. There are also some member benefits.

 

[beanman]

So, I hope to pick up a KW902 Bluetooth OBD2 dongle tomorrow.
Will it be obvious when pluged in (soulspy app already loaded on my phone) which stats are for overall SOHC and which ones are L1 L2 charge cycle counts?

I ran the "demo data" and can see various SOC % values, but I don't see # of charges L1/L2

Thank you

Just an additional note: Emailed with the author of that SouSpy branch, Henrik, he mentions that charge/discharge current & power are listed since the last BMS reset, but L1/L2 charge cycles are not available in that app. Does anyone know which app might show that?
Bonus question: Does anyone know how the current & power numbers he mentioned might relate to the # of charge/discharge cycles?