All power gone, zilch

[osher]

Hi all, apologies if this has been posted before.

Plugged in my EV last night using my usual household power supply. Car had around 35% battery. I believe the blue lights began flashing. Now, nothing. I can't even open the doors, or turn on the interior lights (I opened the car using the emergency key). Both keys have the same result, and I have tried changing the battery. Tried charging the car again, but zilch, no flashing lights. The charger is 'green', but the charging light doesn't come on (and nor does the fault). Naturally this happens on Christmas Eve, when everything will be shut for 4 days!

Any suggestions? My car was one the first imported ones, used as a Kia demonstrator originally.

Thanks!

 

[2016Electric]

Check your 12 Volt battery. It's probably dead.

If so, you should be able to charge it with something for a few mins and then attempt L2 charging again.

 

[SoulEV2016]

I can't even open the doors, or turn on the interior lights

Yep, 12v Auxiliary ACID battery is dead.

 

[tractioninc]

Echoing the above. The small 12v battery under the hood of the car is charged only from the main battery pack while driving, and is not charged by the OBC when you plug in your car each day. The 12v battery is required to run the electronics in your car and if has low voltage you cannot drive. If you have an early car, your dealer can perform a software update that improves your car's 12v charging cycle; I have not had to charge my 12v since that update was performed. Otherwise an inexpensive 12v automotive battery charger is a handy tool to use in an emergency.

 

[osher]

Thanks all! I bought a trickle charger, and jump leads, and will trickle charge the battery later. I'll post how I got on.

 

[GizmoEV]

Use a volt meter to measure the voltage of the 12V battery. With some "smart" trickle chargers they won't work if the voltage is too low. You may need a "dumb" charger instead. You could also jumpstart from another vehicle. It doesn't take much to engage the contactors and when the car is powered up the charge rate is quite high. It is low enough that you don't even have to have very heavy gauge wire for the jump. I thought that the 12V battery was charged during car charging, though not merely plugged in. Maybe that was in the software update. Be sure to get any updates to software done as was mentioned earlier.

 

[osher]

Didn't work. I attached the trickle charger, and the charging light came on, as did the running lights (did I leave the car on?). Seeing power, I pressed the lock button on the remote. Now the charger stopped working, the lights went off, and since then, zilch. I tried jumping, for 10 minutes from my other car (a VW Eos 2.0 petrol automatic). Still zilch. Went back to the trickle charger. Still no charge light, and of course, no functions work.

Car is a year old. Any ideas?

 

[osher]

Can I use a battery from another car to get mine to the dealer? I know zilch about cars!

 

[2016Electric]

If you don't want to contact roadside for a tow to the dealer, try this:

1 - connect your kia to the petrol car (jump)

2 - while still connected, try turning on your Kia. If it starts, that's conformation it's low 12v system voltage.

3 - assuming that number 2 worked, turn the kia off. While still connected to the petrol car, connect your L2 charger.

4 - Charging should begin of the traction battery, plus the 12v battery.

I suspect that the car was left running on acc mode and that drained your 12v battery flat. Anyway, if the above doesn't work, have your car towed to the dealer as there could be something else wrong with it.

And... Merry Christmas!

 

[SoulEV2016]

if the auxiliary battery (ACID) is dead, the LDC detect this and refuse to start.
you must have a buffer between the LDC (DC-DC Converter) and the main 12v line.

if the 12v battery is a wire, the LDC detect this at the start when you opened the car (the pneumatic aid of the brake MUST charge before the driver take place in the car).

a low noise (very low frequency like a boomer) is heard from this part before you start the car during 3 seconds at least ... it's the monitoring of the 12v ACID battery (very simple process, actually).

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=732

The AUX battery must supply 8A at 12v (100w) when the LDC take the task.
Pneumatic Aid take more than this to initiate the brake assist.

 

[osher]

Hi all, well, we're closer to solving the problem. My mate came over, and we jumped the car again. This time it started (what did I do wrong? my friend is just good with things mechanical, and I'm not!), power was restored. I drove it around the block, all good. Stopped the car. Still good. Switched off the car, and within 30 seconds, back to nada, zilch, no power.

It seems that the battery simply refuses to hold any charge. I have no idea how this could just happen overnight, but there it is. Car motor battery was 100% (although it was draining quite rapidly, 1/4 mile was 3% gone), and at 97% when I stopped a few minutes later.

It sounds like the 12v is the problem, but how could it suddenly change? Could it be sucking power from the main battery pack?

I bet Kia say that no warranty on the battery! It's supposed to be 2 years, so I hope I'm wrong.

 

[tractioninc]

Where do you live, and what's the ambient temperature? Lead acid batteries like the 12v are weakened by cold temps, just like the lithium batteries in the propulsion pack. Jumping the battery and driving around the block is by no means enough to get the 12v fully charged (it really needs to be charged overnight), so it's no surprise that once you turned the car off it wouldn't turn on again.

Your dealer (or any auto parts store) should be able to check the health of your 12v battery. If your battery has a fault it will show up on the test, and should be covered under your warranty.

 

[SoulEV2016]

1) It seems that the battery simply refuses to hold any charge. I have no idea how this could just happen overnight, but there it is.


2) I bet Kia say that no warranty on the battery! It's supposed to be 2 years, so I hope I'm wrong.

1) Normal case. It's not a AGM battery, it's a STARTER battery ... all my batteries since 15 years die like that.

2) Yes, it's 2 years. "batterie origine" line on this picture.

 

[2016Electric]

Good to know that for sure it's an issue on the 12v side..

It would also be interesting to see what the car on and car off voltages are, to determine if the DC to DC converter is supplying ~14v with the car running, as it should in order to charge the 12v battery. That would help to further narrow down the problem to either the battery itself, or possibly a parasitic load with the car off.

 

[JejuSoul]

There have been quite a few threads on this forum about 12V battery failure. It's probably the most common problem reported. Given that my car is nearly 2 years old, and the warranty for the 12V will be running out, I will probably pay more attention to it.

There is a busy thread on this topic over at the Nissan Leaf forum.- LEAF's 12V battery behaviors - and why they go bad

In my experience, the le4f is particularly susceptible to low, and even marginal 12V battery. It's unlike most cars in important ways. For example, in an ICE car you become acutely aware of low battery condition because the starting event is a big current draw and makes a weak battery instantly recognizable. In effect, every internal combustion car has a built-in load tester for the 12V battery that is invoked every time you drive.

In the le4f, the "starting current" is trivial and so the battery can drift down and become quite weak without giving any indication. And then when the 12V does drop below a certain threshold, it can result in any number of bizarre symptoms including anomalous braking performance that aren't immediately obvious as 12V problems, and are dangerous besides. Not everyone is prepared to read 24 separate DTC codes, realize they all have one root cause(12V supply), and clear them to get the car normalized again. Been there. For these reasons I think it is quite reasonable that le4f drivers become wary of 12V issues and seek to understand and stay ahead of them.

 

[SoulEV2016]

If you don't lease the Soul, replace the STARTER battery by an AGM Battery, that's why i have opened a thread about this : http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=732

DC-DC converter seems to have 2 levels for the 12v : 13,2v and 14,3v.

It's to inform of the max voltage on the 12v Auxiliary battery.
The AGM batteries work well and do a LOT MORE cycle than the starter battery, of course !

In french forums, we have plenty of dead ACID battery on Nissan Leaf, too ... (max = 4 years of life).

http://www.automobile-propre.com/forums/nissan-leaf/qui-a-deja-change-la-batterie-12v-de-sa-leaf-t6336.html#p78503

 

[osher]

Thanks all! We eventually jumped the car, and I took it to the dealer. They trickle charged it, left it alone for 6 hours, and it tested it. Fine! So, no clue as to what happened, but they did say they hadn't heard of a 12v dying whilst the car was plugged into the regular charger. According to them the battery is fine.

As for the warranty, naturally it ran out a few weeks ago...

Thanks anyway!