Battery Ageing Model

[mtndrew1]

My numbers improved.

MIN 12.6%
MAX 14.7%
CEC 13097
CED 12528
MAX CELL# 51
MIN CELL# 20

ODOMETER 38500 MILES / 62000 KM

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

Haha Jeju, you beat me to it posting the info about Téo, I was about to do this :mrgreen:

The IVI is supposed to publish their numbers to the public at some point, I contacted them and am waiting for an answer! I will meet them anyway on May 27-28

 

[SoulEV2016]

Well, it's internet after all.

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=434&start=240#p6764

My numbers improved again (old -> new):

Date 2017-04-06 -> 2017-05-30
Min 11.7% -> 10.7%
Max 13.3% -> 12.7
Avg 12.5% -> 11.7
CEC 9583 -> 10195
CED 9342 -> 9929
Odometer 49992 km -> 53593

Still original OBC

 

[Elmil]

.
It's now 2 months and 5300 km since the BMS was updated and the deterioration data was reset. Here's how it looks right now:

Current values:
Max det: 9.2%
Min det: 7.5%

 

[Elmil]

.
As I regularly charge only to 80% during summer, the deterioration values are sitting put until I need to start with 100%. A week ago I did that, and got another update.

the Max det increased a bit, while the Min det fell down to 1.5%. This is a behaviour seen frequently in some cars, but first time for me.

Max det: from 9.2% to 9.8%
Min det: from 7.5% to 1.5%

Notable is that the cell numbers are the same as on previous change. Particularly the Min value has been represented by the same cell (#8) on an overwhealming majority of occations (80%) since I started recording this.

 

[JejuSoul]

...the Max det increased a bit, while the Min det fell down to 1.5%. This is a behaviour seen frequently in some cars, but first time for me...

Two cars that have shown this behaviour before, mine and Birkeland's. Mine is older than yours, Birkeland's is newer. So I think your original BMS was the same as ours. Your new BMS is different from ours.
We used to think that this related to whether your charged at 32A or not. Seems it may be something else.

 

[Elmil]

.
The weekend before this change, I went for a roadtrip (650 km) and had a total of seven CHAdeMO fast charges, plus a little Type2 32A (well, 27.5A actually). This is highly different from my daily commute, so maybe the algorithm get confused in some way?

Anyway, today I had a full charge (almost), and the deterioration values went back to more "normal" (but really good) values:

Max: 8.3%
Min: 5.1%
Odometer: 68500 km

 

[teirhy]

My soul, 40 000 km :

Why this difference between charged and discharged energy ?



for memory, my soul at 32 000 km

Since I emptied the battery and I had to call the sprayer.
I think it degraded the cells that were the least degraded before.



And another soul that I met,
22 237 km

 

[JejuSoul]

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Teirhy: Thanks for the data. Your car is still one of the best.

...Why this difference between charged and discharged energy ? ..

Since no chemical or physical process can ever be 100% efficient, more energy is always used to charge the battery than can be recovered from it.

All cars we have data for (except for 1) behave like this.

...Since I emptied the battery and I had to call the sprayer.
I think it degraded the cells that were the least degraded before. ..

I don't understand this. What is a sprayer? What did the sprayer do?

It is common for the value for Minimum Deterioration to drop to a very low value, and then jump back to a value close to the Maximum.
It is more important to take the trend of several readings over many months, rather than rely on a single reading.

 

[JejuSoul]

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Can someone from Norway verify this link and translation.
Google Translate has wrongly converted 100,000km into 100,000 miles I think.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1543242002564112/permalink/1980503562171285/

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

My 12V start battery was depleted twice. There are different reports of depleted 12V batteries. Unfortunately this depletion made the 12V battery fail, there were bad cells. So Kia replaced it with a new 12V battery. Unfortunately the 12 V battery guarantee is only 2 years

I stated that more people have problems with the 12V battery, so there is sometimes a leakage, despite the Kia Soul EV is turned off correctly. Reports are that this could be due to the GPS module or when the charger stops in error. And because if this deep discharge of the 12V lead battery happens often, this will fail sooner or later.

The Kia dealer said there was an update, so when charging, also the 12V battery was charged. So they updated the BMS, the navigation software and cleared the ECU. I still have the feeling the real problem will not be gone and there is still a chance the 12V battery gets depleted. I am not sure if I should install a battery guard, so the 12V battery is not fully depleted. Anyone experience with installing this?

Nevertheless, all the values were reset when I checked with Torque Pro. So Min Det, Max Det, CEC, CED, all those values were reset to 0.
After the first charge from 50% to 100% the Avg Det was 14%. After a charge from 14% to 100% the Avg Det. did get back to 12.2% with 56158 km driven. Note that the new software does not contain Android Auto for my 2014 model. Also I can still charge till 80%.

 

[teirhy]

-....
I don't understand this. What is a sprayer? What did the sprayer do?

i mean tow truck, not sprayer, wrong translation, wrong word

 

[JejuSoul]

... So they updated the BMS...

The discussion about BMS upgrades is here - Re: BMS software update
It fixes a pre-heating bug. I don't think it is connected to the 12V battery problem.
There is another patch that fixes a DC-DC converter bug, which fixes some 12V issues.

...I mean tow truck, not sprayer, wrong translation, wrong word ...

I was guessing / hoping ' a sprayer' might be your word for one of these Chademo rescue trucks. Much more convenient than a tow truck.

 

[SoulEV2016]

I still have the feeling the real problem will not be gone and there is still a chance the 12V battery gets depleted. I am not sure if I should install a battery guard, so the 12V battery is not fully depleted. Anyone experience with installing this?

In French forum, we have 4 case of this problem (drained 12v accessory battery).
Yes, install battery 12v automated charger is you always have this problem.

problem : you can not use the Type 1 plug to install in the front box ... because a contactor cut the power after the end of charge (so Type 1 plug is off the grid most of the time).

You can buy, before, a logger to evaluate the amount of current flowing outsite the battery ...

 

[JejuSoul]

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A couple of links to the MyNissanLeaf Forum because they have similar discussions to ours.

--- Bad Module in Brand-New 2017 SV

--- 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

2016 Nissan Neaf 30kWh lost 2 bars after 18 months and 31,000 miles.

Drive to/from work everyday round trip of 84 miles in Phoenix, AZ.

 

[teirhy]

My soh gets better After recharging from 5 to 100%

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

My soh gets better After recharging from 5 to 100%

What type of charger did you use that time?

I frequently observed that the GOM range improved (and probably the SOH number as well, I just didn't noticed at the time) when doing full slow charges like you did. On my side (Canadian model), I sometimes slow charge using the 120V charger (12A I think) provided with the car when visiting my parents. A full charges takes around 18-24h.

Note that the battery didn't actually "improved" after this charge, but it's the BMS algorithm that provides a better result. The key here is probably the full range charged (95% total), giving the BMS more data to perform its analysis.

 

[teirhy]

Charged with Kia charger (220V/9A) 1,9kW and 15h.

 

[JejuSoul]

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This may be a calibration effect. see Battery Calibration

To calibrate the battery you must charge to 100%, drive down below 10%, and then charge back up to 100%.
My Soul EV is 2 years old. I have been monitoring the battery for about 18 months now.
In that time I have done this calibration 4 times. I always charge at 32A

I do not usually charge my Soul EV to 100% unless I have to. I have never been below 10%. My car has driven nearly 40,000km and still has SOH 100%. The deterioration counters show I have lost about 9% from the total capacity. Calibration is not really an important issue when the car is still new.

Specifically the calibration occurs at 392.5 +/-0.1V battery voltage, 4.08V (0xCC) cell voltage and 91.5-92.5% SOC.