Car won't start :cry:

[ralyon]

So Sunday we go to the zoo, about 15 miles away, and I charge on a blink L2 charger while we are at the zoo and she makes it home with no problem. Plug her in with the factory L1 charger at home and there she sat until this morning. Doors unlock normally with the button on the handle, but when I get in the car to start it, I get a weird groaning sound when I push the brake and no reaction from the power button. Pop the hood and check the breakers making sure they are all seated, wiggle them and none of them look blown and try to start it again and this time it starts, but shows a brake error warning on the screen. Check the brake and it appears to be working correctly, although I can't move yet so I don't know if it is actually engaging while I'm in park. Turn it off and then the funny sound from the breaks again and no lights.

So Flatbed came to pick her up and bring her to the dealership where I got a ICE loaner and I'm waiting to hear from them. Hopefully it won't be too serious cause I can't stand driving this ICE now. I'll update as I hear more.

 

[SoulEV2016]

If no light : 12v acid battery is dead.
classic.

Pneumatic assistance on brake pedal must be precharged when start begin ... but the battery (12v acid) must be in good condition to release this process. :idea:

You can hear this sound when you cut the car and lift off the pedal brake = brooooooo sound is hear.

We have many report about this in Leaf section and Soul EV section on my forum.

The classic case is the dealer that it has let the car ON with 12v ACID only (no green car with arrows) ... and DON'T HAVE turn OFF the A/C Button. :evil:

I have this case with my professionnal cleaner factory recently (i have cable for 12v ACID in my Soul EV, so i can jump start any car with my Soul EV ... or jump start my car). :mrgreen:

The second case is the combinaison of hard task for Soul EV and short time for charge (the time to charge the Acid battery is too short, it's a slow charge).

In the second case, many users don't know that the car MUST be with the green light car and arrows when you are in the car to phone or study (or eat) like 30min to 1 hour.

 

[ralyon]

I do leave it in the "On" position (green car light with arrows) when I'm sitting in it running the stereo and AC, but the last time I did that was 5 days ago and I have driving it on 11 trips since then, well over 100 miles. It had been off in my garage, plugged into the wall with the factory charger since the 4th around 5PM, so about 36 hours, before I tried to start it today. Nothing out of the ordinary so if the 12v is dead, it would likely mean the 12v charger is not working. That will probably mean waiting for a replacement part for about a week stuck in the ICE.

 

[SoulEV2016]

have you a picture of the brake failure error message ?
have you tested a jump start (from an other 12v battery) to see if the brake message is always displayed with a good 12v source ?

 

[ralyon]

Dealership said it is a bad 12v battery and they are looking for a replacement. Hopefully they can find one soon.

 

[Elmil]

There are now several threads on this forum reporting problems probably related to the 12V battery. There is a noticable thing I like to point out, which may not be obvious to everyone:

When the car is off and connected to the J1772 cable, there is NO 12V charging if the blue LED:s are all inactive.

For example, if you use charging- or climate scheduling, the 12V battery is not charged until the scheduled time is activated. Just a thought..

 

[SoulEV2016]

We can point 2 others problems (or not) about the normal use of AUXILIARY battery (ACID) in this generation of EV :

- dealer let the car stuck in the car park without recharge the 12v battery while we know that the elements of the control (eg. charger, bms, planning) does not use the high-voltage battery to survey the action of the driver on approch.

- the fast charging of the car can be to quick to charge (again) a discharged ACID battery that she recquires a slow charging current (like 13 hours at 4A for a 45Ah and 14,6v max).

- ACID battery in the electric car is not the good chemistry : builder use START battery .... but the EV battery must use STATIONARY battery to support deep discharge.

START battery must be maintain at 100% every time to endure a 5 years life.
STATIONARY battery can be at 70%-40% without problem and hold for 5-8 years.

DEALER and OWNER must usse the main switch to "save" the 12v auxiliary ACID battery :

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=581

 

[slobodanc]

In NA the common terms are:

"deep cycle battery"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_cycle_battery

Also sometimes called "marine battery" because it is often used for boats.

So are we sure that replacing stock factory 12V battery with a deep cycle version is fine, no issues?

thanks

 

[notfred]

The 12V battery is a Silver Calcium type so you likely can't replace it with a plain lead acid as it charges at too high a voltage. I'm not sure if it is rated as deep cycle though.

 

[slobodanc]

Interesting

Does that mean that when I charge it I need to select higher voltage?
I have a 12V charger that has a "winter" mode that is supposed to drive higher voltage.

http://smartercharger.com/products/batterychargers/ctek-multi-us-3300/

"Mode 14.7V/3.3A
This setting is recommended for a battery at temperatures <41°F. It is also
recommended for many AGM batteries like Optima, Maxxima and Odysses.
Consult your battery manufacturer when in doubt."

So this would be the correct mode for Kia battery?

thanks

 

[slobodanc]

The 12V battery is a Silver Calcium type so you likely can't replace it with a plain lead acid as it charges at too high a voltage. I'm not sure if it is rated as deep cycle though.

Tried to lookup the battery model chemistry but failed. Where did you find this info?

thanks

 

[SoulEV2016]

stop thinking, use LifePO4 batteries. :mrgreen:

 

[notfred]

The 12V battery is a Silver Calcium type so you likely can't replace it with a plain lead acid as it charges at too high a voltage. I'm not sure if it is rated as deep cycle though.

Tried to lookup the battery model chemistry but failed. Where did you find this info?

thanks

Went back to the source, the 2015 Soul EV Owners manual for Canada http://www.kia.ca/content/ownership/ownersmanual/15soulev-en.pdf

See page 7-32, looks like I might have been mistaken

Battery recharging
Your vehicle has a maintenance-free,
calcium-based battery.
• If the battery becomes discharged
in a short time (because, for example,
the headlights or interior lights
were left on while the vehicle was
not in use), recharge it by slow
charging (trickle) for 10 hours.
• If the battery gradually discharges
because of high electric load while
the vehicle is being used, recharge
it at 20-30A for two hours.

So it says "calcium-based", I guess I misread that as silver-calcium but I now suspect it's calcium-calcium or lead-calcium so a normal charger would be best for it.

 

[slobodanc]

Ok so regular deep cycle would work just fine I guess.
Really the CCA rating is of no significance, right?

 

[Melchor]

Hi, Thank you for your info. My 2016 Kia Soul EV with 19500 miles did not start one cold night. We got the Check your Brakes warning with a bunch or other warning lights.
The car’s head lights would not turn off and nothing else worked.

I though it was a huge problem. I called the dealship next day and they were not help at all.

It occurred to me to check the 12 volt auxiliary battery voltage since I remembered the interior lights were a bit dim when I tried starting the car.

That was the issue with the car. The battery was reading 8 volts and would not hold a charge.

As soon as I charged it, the car worked perfectly. The battery was a 3 years old. Unfortunately Kia used the cheapest battery possible. It is needed to start the brake system booster motor. Since the battery was so low, the brake booster motor would not work. That is why all of the error and warning lights.

I had to replace the battery because the 3 year battery would not keep the charge.

The bad part is that there was no warning. It just stopped working.

I am so glad I did not take the car to the dealer. The 12 volt battery is not under warranty and they would have charge me an arm and a leg to diagnose and replace the auxiliary battery.

I paid $140 for the new battery. I installed it my self.

Please check your auxiliary 12 volt battery if your car is over 2 years old and it will not start. Cheap lead acid batteries do not last last more than 3 years.

I am leasing the car so I will not put an expensive maintenance free battery.

The auxiliary battery is constantly being discharged because the smart key system is always on. If you will not use your car for over two weeks, disconnect the Lead Acid battery so it wil not get discharged and stop working.

I drive my car less than 9000 miles per year. I do not use it for a few days at a time. I believe that is why my battery failed so soon.

Good luck!

 

[CanadianLurker]

Timely coincidence that this thread popped up today - we encountered a no start situation this morning!

It sat unused from Friday evening until this morning in the -20C temperatures, albeit it a few degrees warmer being parked in the garage. When my daughter went to drive to work this morning she got the battery light and the Soul wouldn’t move.

I talked her through hooking it up to a battery trickle charger I have in the garage. After an hour she tried it again and it was ok but she hooked the battery charger back up and worked from home instead of risking driving to work and possibly getting stranded at the end of the day.

I’m going to leave it on the charger overnight and will check it out in the morning. Hopefully it recovers.

 

[CanadianLurker]

Looks like it recovered to 12.9v and 49% but I don’t know the levels from when it was too low. It didn’t recover as much as I’d hoped, but it was still pretty cold again overnight.

It was able to start this morning and I moved it back & forth ok. Will see if a 60 on round trip to work and back today will help and will throw it on the charger again tonight.

 

[JejuSoul]

-
Me too. My 12V battery just needed replacing. 4 years old, 53,000km.
See :- Going on Vacation

I too got to see some weird errors and behaviors from the almost flat 12V battery.
It's been reported many times, so it was an easy guess to assume the problem is the 12V battery.

 

[CanadianLurker]

Looks like it recovered to 12.9v and 49% but I don’t know the levels from when it was too low. It didn’t recover as much as I’d hoped, but it was still pretty cold again overnight.

It was able to start this morning and I moved it back & forth ok. Will see if a 60 on round trip to work and back today will help and will throw it on the charger again tonight.

So, it “warmed up” to only -6C and after the day’s commute it came back holding 12.9v and increased to 54%. Not great, but promising.

It’s forecasted to gradually rise over the next 24 hrs up to +6C so hope will see some further recover tomorrow after staying on the tender overnight and another commute.

 

[CanadianLurker]

-
Me too. My 12V battery just needed replacing. 4 years old, 53,000km.
See :- Going on Vacation

I too got to see some weird errors and behaviors from the almost flat 12V battery.
It's been reported many times, so it was an easy guess to assume the problem is the 12V battery.

Disappointed to see such an issue from a vehicle only in service for 7 months and only 12,000 kms since delivery in June ‘18. Not to make light of your situation, but at least you got a more reasonable amount of service life out of yours!