Cells in HV battery

[BlackButee46]

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum. I have 360VDC battery pack from a 2015 KIA Soul EV. I noticed on the last charge to 400VDC, there was a strong smell of nail polish remover. I did some reading and looked at my BMS to see that one cell was at 0.86V while all the others were between 3.96V and 4.02V. In reading this forum, it looks possible to simply replace individual cells. I am looking for more information on how to replace individual cells in the pack. Where can you buy individual cells? What recalibration is needed when replacing a single cell? What other items need to be done?

 

[JejuSoul]

Hi BlackButee46, welcome to the forum.
There is not much info on replacing modules or individual cells.
The places that have attempted this in the past are Jordan, Ukraine and Russia.
People have bought second hand cars to countries where there is no warranty service.
DIY battery cell replacements have been done, but ( according Jordanian users ) the 'repaired' pack does not last long afterwards.
Even fixing the car with a re-manufactured pack did not seem to work well. ( Tried for a few years in the US. No longer happens.)
The only solution that works well is replacing the old pack with a brand new one.
Good luck with your battery. Please post again with whatever method you try.

Here's a Russian video showing a battery repair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0LOltx4KKw

-

 

[IanL]

.....The only solution that works well is replacing the old pack with a brand new one.

Could you confirm (or otherwise) that includes replacing all the cells in the pack with new cells?

The reason I ask is that that procedure has been done, and I don't recall any bad reports arising.

 

[ksoul2084]

I too would like to find more information on the how's and where's that this battery cell replacement approach has been used.

My 2016 Soul EV+ had the battery pack "refreshed" by KIA in 2020 (157K km), just before it went off warranty. They replaced the "bad" cells in my existing pack. This was done under a warranty claim, I had no input or knowledge ahead of time that they were doing this instead of replacing the battery outright.

Two years and approx. 15k km later, my battery is showing reduced range and an alarmingly high min. degradation of 16.5% and a max degradation of 19%, for a battery SOH of 91.1%.

I am hoping that should it come to it I might be able to refresh my own battery pack in the future by replacing the worst cells.

 

[JejuSoul]

Could you confirm (or otherwise) that includes replacing all the cells in the pack with new cells?

In December 2019 I got a new battery pack.
The new battery cells came in a large wooden crate. The battery case, the BMS, the wiring harness etc were all reused. All the original cells were put into the crate and were sent back to SK Innovation.



The new battery continues to have 96 cell pairs, but these are now the MY2018 version ( or better! ). An upgrade from the E375 to the E400.
The BMS was re-programmed for the new pack. Original hardware for the BMS but new software. Algorithms for calculating GOM, Energy Consumption, Regeneration seem to have changed. Maybe! Maybe the software has improved over the years and this new version is better?
Or Maybe it just works differently because the cells have a different weight and power profile. There is no way to know for sure.

I can confirm the new battery pack is better than the original. My pack is still at 100% SOH and easily gets over 200km on a full charge.

-

 

[JejuSoul]

...
My 2016 Soul EV+ had the battery pack "refreshed" by KIA in 2020 (157K km), just before it went off warranty. They replaced the "bad" cells in my existing pack. This was done under a warranty claim, I had no input or knowledge ahead of time that they were doing this instead of replacing the battery outright.
..

You are in Canada so it seems the 're-manafactured packs problem also includes Canada.
From multiple previous threads on this topic I recall discussion of a Texas factory that was sending out replacement packs.
To get a new pack required the battery to be sent from South Korea. This was often a long wait.
There are many examples of cars in warmer states (Georgia, Hawaii, Arizona) getting 2 or 3 warranty replacements because the 'new' pack does not last as long as the original.

How people deal with this issue now that the warranty is finishing is going to be a challenge.

The Tesla approach wins yet again. Having thousands of small cells that are permanently fixed into the pack means no one is ever going to try to replace a single bad cell. Instead the software just isolates that cell and the car continues to work.

 

[kiaaruba]

Hi, Perhaps somebody can advise
My Kia Soul EV 2017 had only 19 miles on the EV battery pack. I replaced the full pack with a 2nd had pack from a salvage car this to get a an acceptable millage again.
The old original pack I have dismantled and have now 8 modules (4 x 10 cell and 4 x 14 cell) with in total the 192 cells on shelf.

Question: is there a SIMPLE method to test modules or individual cells, to identify damaged modules/cells?
I expect I can dismantle the modules further to individual cells.

If yes, good modules and or cells can be reused
Thanks for replies

 

[notfred]

Before you removed it from the car, did you take a look at SoulSpy readings with it charged and empty? That would clearly show which cells are bad as they would be out of line compared with the others.

 

[JejuSoul]

...
Question: is there a SIMPLE method to test modules or individual cells, to identify damaged modules/cells?
I expect I can dismantle the modules further to individual cells...

SIMPLE - NO.
But yes it can be done. Just make sure to follow all the safety procedures.
Here's two videos showing the disassembly of a Bolt EV battery pack by Professor John D. Kelly at Weber State University (WSU).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3G8JGsEjPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssU2mjiNi_Q

He measures voltages of the modules and cells at the end of the second video.
I recommend watching the entire video because he is brilliant at explaining all the safety tips in a clear and precise way.

I do not recommend following the examples shown in the Ukrainian and Russian videos I posted earlier in this thread.

-

 

[kiaaruba]

Thanks for the replies.
No I don't have readings from vehicle charged and empty of individual cells unfortunately.

From a Friend I borrowed a Venom Pro Quad LiPo & NiMH Battery Charger and I dismantled a module of 10 cells as a test.
With this charger I can at the same time discharge and thereafter recharge the 4 x individual 3.7 volt cells.
By reading voltage empty and full charged and supplied capacity for each individual cell I hope to be able by comparison to identify which cell is good and bad.

Its a time consuming process as discharge is 1.0 Amp and Charge max 7.0 Amp, with 37.5 Ah per cell this could take up to 1-2 days. This to be repeated 24 x 4 cells.

What do you guys think of this?

 

[BlackButee46]

Any update on your voltage testing? For my pack, I have identified the individual bad cell in the module. I am trying to find where I can buy a 10 cell module. With the batteries in older KIA Souls coming to the end of their usable lives, there must be some uded batteries out there.

 

[BlackButee46]

Does anyone know if there were ANY changes to the main battery pack between 2015 and 2016? I have found a battery pack from a wrecked 2016 KIA Soul EV and want to see if there were any wiring changes, hardware, software, firmware, etc?

 

[IanL]

From my reading around, I have not found any mention of such changes from 2015 to 2017. The 2018 MY introduced the 100 cell-pair battery - the earlier one was 96 cell-pairs.

 

[BlackButee46]

I found a replacement battery pack in the USA and am trying to ship it to Canada. Since Lithium Ion batteries are considered a dangerous good in both the USA and Canada, the carrier needs a copy of the battery cell test report to show to customs that the battery is from a reputable manufacturer and not a knock-off. Since the batteries are made in South Korea and imported into the USA, all imported batteries must have this report. Normally it would be wit the car when it is imported. This requirement is called the UN 38.3 Test Summary Report from the manufacturer and is part of the US Department of Transportation 49 CFR. I have contacted KIA USA but I am not hopeful they will assist with this. One person on this thread mentioned they got a new KIA battery pack in a wooden box. Did you receive a battery cell test report? The test has 8 categories - T.1 to T.8. If anyone has a copy of their test report, pleas forward to me. (Apparently the test report dosn't have to be on that specific battery, just that type of battery.) Mine battery is for a 2015 or 2106 KIA Soul EV. Any thoughts or assistance would be appreciated.