Ontario - Bosch chargers not eligible for rebates

[Beachman]

So here's a headsup. Kia has partnered with Bosch for chargers and installation help, and if you ask the dealer they should give you a voucher that gets you their basic 16A charger (excluding shipping, taxes and installation). My dealer had no clue about this so this took several phone calls to Kia Canada but got that sorted. However that unit is out of stock for some time so for an upgrade of approx $150 you can get the next model up, and with an 18ft cord and 30A service, 6.6kw charging. All-in with tax and shipping that works out to $325 out of pocket.

So here's the issue - the Bosch chargers being offered to Kia purchasers are not currently on the Ontario list as eligible for the 50% reimbursement of charger purchase or installation. One of the conditions is that it must be sourced from Canada and ship from Canada - and the Bosch chargers clearly ship from the US since I've been dealing with someone in Michigan. They are very helpful at Bosch but not aware their chargers for whatever reason are not on the Ontario reimbursement list. I suspect this is because they haven't filed the proper paperwork but even so, they do not meet the condition of being from a Canadian source. I was assured this would be worked out later and I wouldn't have any problem but I called the Ministry and they are pretty cut and dry - it's on the list or it's not.

So I've cancelled the Bosch order and will make sure I get one on the Ontario list - and there about 75 chargers there so not a big deal.

Another headsup is that although Bosch will handle everything for you, apparently they are marking up the installation charge so it's better if you hire someone yourself if you want to keep the costs down.

 

[JimGord]

Good advice

The higher charging rate would be worth it.

Kia Soul EV Lux Blue/White
Nissan Leaf SV

 

[JeffBacon]

Ugh. I already received mine (paid for the 30A 25ft cord upgraded one using the 16A rebate as a discount) and had it installed the other day.

If it's truly not eligible, my dealer is going to get an earful from me.

 

[Tekguy26]

So guys what's the latest status on this no updates. I haven't ordered money yet either because I suspect Bosch isn't familiar with the rebate in Ontario. The guy called at an $1000 rebate but it's actually not.

So if the Bosch EVSE isn't eligible then the installation won't be covered either from what I understand.

 

[acadiandad]

It's more money but the SPX Power Express EL-50600A (Bosch owned I guess) is listed on the MTO approved list - when you click on the SPX link from the MTO site it takes you to the Bosch website.

This charger has a plug and adjustable current which makes it kind of flexible I think.

That said I have not tried to apply for the rebate for it.

 

[2016Electric]

The Bosch chargers aren't that great. Why waste all that money on an EVSE with zero features.. if you are reasonably competent (on things electrical), order and build an openevse. FAR superior product to anything else I've seen or used, and you can't beat the price. It's portable, can easily adjust charging current, and I've been using mine since October last year - it survived a frigid Canadian winter and works flawlessly.

 

[Tekguy26]

The Bosch chargers aren't that great. Why waste all that money on an EVSE with zero features.. if you are reasonably competent (on things electrical), order and build an openevse. FAR superior product to anything else I've seen or used, and you can't beat the price. It's portable, can easily adjust charging current, and I've been using mine since October last year - it survived a frigid Canadian winter and works flawlessly.

Well the Bosch charger is provided or $595 equivalent if you want a different model. My concern was the installation cost not being covered. Also building an EVSE isn't covered by the Ontario rebate.

 

[2016Electric]

The Bosch chargers aren't that great. Why waste all that money on an EVSE with zero features.. if you are reasonably competent (on things electrical), order and build an openevse. FAR superior product to anything else I've seen or used, and you can't beat the price. It's portable, can easily adjust charging current, and I've been using mine since October last year - it survived a frigid Canadian winter and works flawlessly.

Well the Bosch charger is provided or $595 equivalent if you want a different model. My concern was the installation cost not being covered. Also building an EVSE isn't covered by the Ontario rebate.

Right, but after shipping and model up sell, you will still be out of pocket on your Bosch.
Also, just install a stove outlet (nema 14-50) yourself if you know how, and add a suitable plug to your EVSE for portability. I did mine for around $100 max, 8-3 bx cable, box, breaker and outlet. It's not rocket science.

 

[acadiandad]

Right, but after shipping and model up sell, you will still be out of pocket on your Bosch.
Also, just install a stove outlet (nema 14-50) yourself if you know how, and add a suitable plug to your EVSE for portability. I did mine for around $100 max, 8-3 bx cable, box, breaker and outlet. It's not rocket science.

Might be worth taking a look at ... https://www.esasafe.com/consumers/productsafety/product-approval-safety which states (emphasis is mine) ...

The Ontario Electrical Safety Code (OESC) and Ontario Regulation 438/07 require that all electrical products and devices (including equipment) be approved.
Specifically, the Code states –
Rule: 2-022 Sale or Other Disposal and Use
• No person shall use, advertise, display, sell, offer for sale or other disposal any electrical equipment unless it has been approved in accordance with Rule 2-024 and Ontario Regulation 438/07.

Rule: 2-024 Approval of Electrical Equipment
• Electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if it has been approved according to the process set out in section 2 of Ontario Regulation 438/07.
The Electrical Safety Authority (ESA) recognizes certification bodies and field evaluation agencies accredited by the Standards Council of Canada to certify or evaluate electrical products or devices. Only equipment bearing a recognized mark or label is deemed to be approved. A list of recognized marks and labels is available on our website.
Failure to comply with these Rules or the Regulation is an offence and upon conviction, a person or director/officer of a corporation could be found liable to a fine of up to $50,000 and/or imprisonment of not more than one year. A corporation may be found liable to a fine up to $1,000,000.
ESA also has the authority to order products be quarantined, seized or forfeited to the Crown for disposal.

There doesn't appear to be an exception for openEVSE just because its a kit. Use of unapproved electrical equipment is an offence and subject to some pretty stringent penalties. Notwithstanding the likelihood of authorities knowing would be pretty low.

In terms of the wiring - sure its not rocket science but adding that wiring branch and an outlet requires a permit and inspection whether you do the wiring yourself or not. Surely, if you do things right, you should have no problems. But history is replete with examples of people who thought they were doing things correctly and finding out they didn't the hard way - especially with home wiring and power electrical equipment.

You are comfortable with the risk / cost tradeoffs - but not everyone would be.

 

[2016Electric]

Right, but after shipping and model up sell, you will still be out of pocket on your Bosch.
Also, just install a stove outlet (nema 14-50) yourself if you know how, and add a suitable plug to your EVSE for portability. I did mine for around $100 max, 8-3 bx cable, box, breaker and outlet. It's not rocket science.

Might be worth taking a look at ... https://www.esasafe.com/consumers/productsafety/product-approval-safety which states (emphasis is mine) ...

The Ontario Electrical Safety Code (OESC) and Ontario Regulation 438/07 require that all electrical products and devices (including equipment) be approved.
Specifically, the Code states –
Rule: 2-022 Sale or Other Disposal and Use
• No person shall use, advertise, display, sell, offer for sale or other disposal any electrical equipment unless it has been approved in accordance with Rule 2-024 and Ontario Regulation 438/07.

Rule: 2-024 Approval of Electrical Equipment
• Electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if it has been approved according to the process set out in section 2 of Ontario Regulation 438/07.
The Electrical Safety Authority (ESA) recognizes certification bodies and field evaluation agencies accredited by the Standards Council of Canada to certify or evaluate electrical products or devices. Only equipment bearing a recognized mark or label is deemed to be approved. A list of recognized marks and labels is available on our website.
Failure to comply with these Rules or the Regulation is an offence and upon conviction, a person or director/officer of a corporation could be found liable to a fine of up to $50,000 and/or imprisonment of not more than one year. A corporation may be found liable to a fine up to $1,000,000.
ESA also has the authority to order products be quarantined, seized or forfeited to the Crown for disposal.

There doesn't appear to be an exception for openEVSE just because its a kit. Use of unapproved electrical equipment is an offence and subject to some pretty stringent penalties. Notwithstanding the likelihood of authorities knowing would be pretty low.

In terms of the wiring - sure its not rocket science but adding that wiring branch and an outlet requires a permit and inspection whether you do the wiring yourself or not. Surely, if you do things right, you should have no problems. But history is replete with examples of people who thought they were doing things correctly and finding out they didn't the hard way - especially with home wiring and power electrical equipment.

You are comfortable with the risk / cost tradeoffs - but not everyone would be.

Thanks for the list of regulations. Fair point - if one does not have the competence gained in high school tech and Co op courses, perhaps selecting an approritate wire and running it between a pair of terminals isn't a good idea

As for the EVSE, the device is better than half the commercial units out there.. but fair point on actual certification. Of course, that would preclude anyone from being able to self - construct, which is half the point. I now have a fully user/owner serviceable device. If something breaks, it's a cheap and easy fix. Again, if one does not have high school level electronics knowledge, maybe not a good idea.

Of course, if half the people out there spent less time worrying, thinking "I can't", and instead took the time to learn how to do things for themselves ... then we wouldn't have Canadian monopolies, price fixing, and as much shoddy work perormed by hacks (not saying all trades are hacks, but I've seen a scary amount of s#it work performed by "qualified individuals")

 

[acadiandad]

... if one does not have the competence gained in high school tech and Co op courses, perhaps selecting an approritate wire and running it between a pair of terminals isn't a good idea

LOL - Perhaps you'd be surprised how little technical competence exists in the "technically literate" crowd let alone the general population :roll:

As for the EVSE, the device is better than half the commercial units out there ...

Am genuinely curious what features you find the most useful on the OpenEVSE (or would be on your wishlist for a purchased EVSE). Without connectivity to the car (here in Canada anyway), I suppose the ability to control it remotely via an App might be useful or perhaps some of the telemetry data ? Do you find the 2 entries for scheduling charging in the car to be insufficient ?

One aspect I like about the dead-simple EVSE's is that they align to the members of my family who still struggle with the remotes on our TV / cable-box or connecting their phones to WiFi networks ... eg. it just has to plug in and work without any button pushing, mode selection, etc. I'm assuming the OpenEVSE can be setup to be used in such a way ?

In terms of the design quality / safety / regulatory aspects of the OpenEVSE, clearly its not listed / certified but am curious - do you know if anyone in the community has done the various certification tests that would be required ?

 

[nibularr]

Anybody replace their Bosch within the 6 month period with an eligible EVSE and get the EVSE rebate?

think this would be an issue if you already had the bosch installed?

 

[mallarij]

Hello everyone... I already purchased the Bosch 30A w/ 18' Cable. Previous posts are accurate as I had to pay around $300 out of pocket for the upgrade and shipping. Does anyone have an idea how much it would cost to have this installed? I asked an electrician that was referred to me by a friend and he gave me such a wide range in price... he said between $500 and $2,000!

 

[notfred]

It basically depends on how easy and far it is from the EVSE back to the panel. The cable needs to be armoured as it is in the garage, and 40A armoured cable isn't that cheap.

You also need space in the panel for a 40A 240V breaker. If the electrician has to rejig other circuits that can add a lot to the cost.

To meet code you will need a disconnect next to the EVSE, but those are pretty cheap.

 

[nibularr]

i live in Burlington in an attached garage house had to run the 240 line about 45 feet inside the house and out to end of garage
cost me $800.00 total

 

[mallarij]

Thank you notfred !

It basically depends on how easy and far it is from the EVSE back to the panel. The cable needs to be armoured as it is in the garage, and 40A armoured cable isn't that cheap.

You also need space in the panel for a 40A 240V breaker. If the electrician has to rejig other circuits that can add a lot to the cost.

To meet code you will need a disconnect next to the EVSE, but those are pretty cheap.

 

[mallarij]

Are you a licensed electrician or did you hire someone to do this nibullar?

i live in Burlington in an attached garage house had to run the 240 line about 45 feet inside the house and out to end of garage
cost me $800.00 total

 

[nibularr]

Was a hired electrition.

Happy new year!