Resolved: Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427, fixed via Kia Service Action 210031

[JejuSoul]

...I live in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

The problem with the heat pump has now been reported multiple times from both Canada and Norway. But not elsewhere.
We now have very good evidence that it was caused by a software update.
Maybe. The software was written and tested on a car without a battery heater. All the cars in Korea have a heat pump but no heater.
Maybe. The software actually works on these cars.
Maybe. Kia never tested the software on cars with a battery heater.
ZuinigeRijder - can you tell us if you have a battery heater.

Can't prove anything of course. But this kind of buggy software and poor testing of updates does have a history.

2016Electric - Could you go back to the original post in this thread and update the title to be "Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427"

 

[2016Electric]

...I live in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

The problem with the heat pump has now been reported multiple times from both Canada and Norway. But not elsewhere.
We now have very good evidence that it was caused by a software update.
Maybe. The software was written and tested on a car without a battery heater. All the cars in Korea have a heat pump but no heater.
Maybe. The software actually works on these cars.
Maybe. Kia never tested the software on cars with a battery heater.
ZuinigeRijder - can you tell us if you have a battery heater.

Can't prove anything of course. But this kind of buggy software and poor testing of updates does have a history.

2016Electric - Could you go back to the original post in this thread and update the title to be "Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427"

Sure, I will update the title to read "Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427".

Interesting re the comment earlier on a 2014 model not affected by this issue - the SA427 FATC update only appears to cover model years 2016 and 2017. Have a look at the TSB here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10177748-0001.pdf

Per the TSB, "This bulletin provides the procedure to upgrade the Battery Management System (BMS) and Full Auto Temperature Control (FATC) software on some 2016-2017MY Soul (PS EV) vehicles, produced from May 21, 2015 through August 29, 2017, in order to improve air conditioning operation while the battery is charging. "

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

...I live in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

ZuinigeRijder - can you tell us if you have a battery heater.

How can I check I have a battery heater?

I have a heat pump. Here is a picture I took today:

If I compare this with the picture of this post it looks the same as if one which also has a heat pump.

But I could not find how to check I have a battery heater, yes or no. I found this information, but I do not want to disassemble my battery pack :lol:

 

[JejuSoul]

How can I check I have a battery heater?

If you look at torque there are two values for the temperature of the battery heater.
Without a heater those 2 values are always zero because the necessary sensors do not exist.

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

How can I check I have a battery heater?

If you look at torque there are two values for the temperature of the battery heater.
Without a heater those 2 values are always zero because the necessary sensors do not exist.

Hmm, Torque gave me -50.0 C as answer for both.

This is what I have in the .csv:

000_Battery Heater 1 Temperature,Heater Temp1,2105,Signed(X),-40,120,C,7E4
000_Battery Heater 2 Temperature,Heater Temp2,2105,Signed(Y),-40,120,C,7E4

So I would have expected -40.0 C or 0.0 C when the sensors do not exist, but I got -50.0 C.

 

[2016Electric]

My dealer did some test on my car Today and confirm heatpump does work but only over 15 degC. No big surprise since I did the same in my garage few weeks ago, after reading this thread. They have collected data for further analysis by KIa .

I life in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

So it looks like there is something different with the software update in Canada.

What I noticed is that after fast charging, sometimes the Airco and Heat led are automatically activated at the same time for a short period of time just after driving away, although it was very cold outside. The temperatures of the batteries are however more than 40 degrees Celcius at the end after 3 short fast charging sessions within 2 hours (30% till 80%) and also the fan in de trunk is activated and gets more and more rpm.

Hi ZuinigeRijder,

You indicated that your Soul is a 2014 model. Yes, it has a heat pump - all of the EV Souls sold since 2014 have had that option; however, the portion of SA427 that applies to the FATC (the portion that affects the climate control and heat pump system) appears to apply only to certain 2016 and 2017 model year vehicles. This is indicated the in ROM ID table under "event 502" in the TSB (at the link I posted):

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10177748-0001.pdf

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.

 

[NorSoul]

My dealer did some test on my car Today and confirm heatpump does work but only over 15 degC. No big surprise since I did the same in my garage few weeks ago, after reading this thread. They have collected data for further analysis by KIa .

I life in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

So it looks like there is something different with the software update in Canada.

What I noticed is that after fast charging, sometimes the Airco and Heat led are automatically activated at the same time for a short period of time just after driving away, although it was very cold outside. The temperatures of the batteries are however more than 40 degrees Celcius at the end after 3 short fast charging sessions within 2 hours (30% till 80%) and also the fan in de trunk is activated and gets more and more rpm.

Hi ZuinigeRijder,

You indicated that your Soul is a 2014 model. Yes, it has a heat pump - all of the EV Souls sold since 2014 have had that option; however, the portion of SA427 that applies to the FATC (the portion that affects the climate control and heat pump system) appears to apply only to certain 2016 and 2017 model year vehicles. This is indicated the in ROM ID table under "event 502" in the TSB (at the link I posted):

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10177748-0001.pdf

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.

I don’t think that update is the only root to the problem, as mine is first registered in January 2015. Most if not all people in Norway got that issue after a recall for the e-brake where they also updated the BMS.

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.

I do indeed not know 100% sure if this was this update. But they talked about some changes to the software related to the airco while charging. See this post. Unfortunately I do not have a printout of the software updates performed.

 

[2016Electric]

I life in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

So it looks like there is something different with the software update in Canada.

What I noticed is that after fast charging, sometimes the Airco and Heat led are automatically activated at the same time for a short period of time just after driving away, although it was very cold outside. The temperatures of the batteries are however more than 40 degrees Celcius at the end after 3 short fast charging sessions within 2 hours (30% till 80%) and also the fan in de trunk is activated and gets more and more rpm.

Hi ZuinigeRijder,

You indicated that your Soul is a 2014 model. Yes, it has a heat pump - all of the EV Souls sold since 2014 have had that option; however, the portion of SA427 that applies to the FATC (the portion that affects the climate control and heat pump system) appears to apply only to certain 2016 and 2017 model year vehicles. This is indicated the in ROM ID table under "event 502" in the TSB (at the link I posted):

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10177748-0001.pdf

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.

I don’t think that update is the only root to the problem, as mine is first registered in January 2015. Most if not all people in Norway got that issue after a recall for the e-brake where they also updated the BMS.

Interesting - your's is a 2015 with a battery heater? If so, perhaps the points JejuSoul raised about the interaction with the battery heater option have something to do with it.
Was that update - the one you had applied - also part of the TSB for SA427?
If I recall, you (or someone) mentioned posts in a FaceBook group for Norway Soul EV owners having a problem with the heat pump after this update. Do you have a link for that FaceBook group?

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

For me the reason to have an software update was this recall for the EPB: ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKE (EPB) LOGIC IMPROVEMENT(SC191). And while applying it, they found also another software update, which they told me was related to airco and charging. Which one, I do not know, but suspected SA427.

 

[NorSoul]

Hi ZuinigeRijder,

You indicated that your Soul is a 2014 model. Yes, it has a heat pump - all of the EV Souls sold since 2014 have had that option; however, the portion of SA427 that applies to the FATC (the portion that affects the climate control and heat pump system) appears to apply only to certain 2016 and 2017 model year vehicles. This is indicated the in ROM ID table under "event 502" in the TSB (at the link I posted):

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10177748-0001.pdf

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.

I don’t think that update is the only root to the problem, as mine is first registered in January 2015. Most if not all people in Norway got that issue after a recall for the e-brake where they also updated the BMS.

Interesting - your's is a 2015 with a battery heater? If so, perhaps the points JejuSoul raised about the interaction with the battery heater option have something to do with it.
Was that update - the one you had applied - also part of the TSB for SA427?
If I recall, you (or someone) mentioned posts in a FaceBook group for Norway Soul EV owners having a problem with the heat pump after this update. Do you have a link for that FaceBook group?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1543242002564112/?ref=share - The group is private though

I’m not sure how to check if I have a battery heater or the number of the update that messed up the heat pump. But apparently it wasn’t part of the e-brake update, but a service action regarding BMS/FATC they did at the same time.

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1543242002564112/?ref=share - The group is private though

I’m not sure how to check if I have a battery heater or the number of the update that messed up the heat pump. But apparently it wasn’t part of the e-brake update, but a service action regarding BMS/FATC they did at the same time.

Apparently a new fix is coming, according to that facebook link:

Now I got confirmed by the workshop that our two Souls will be called immediately a new update to fix the heat pump is ready.
So they have confirmed that the cars have this problem. Good to see that fall in range wasn't something I just imagined.
′′ The factory is working on a blast to fix the problem ′′ - and that's good.

I’m not sure how to check if I have a battery heater

I did use Torque Pro and a OBDII bluetooth dongle, see this post.. But I get -50.0 C out of the sensors, I do not know if this definitely means that I have a battery heater, because the values do not make sense.

 

[NorSoul]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1543242002564112/?ref=share - The group is private though

I’m not sure how to check if I have a battery heater or the number of the update that messed up the heat pump. But apparently it wasn’t part of the e-brake update, but a service action regarding BMS/FATC they did at the same time.

Apparently a new fix is coming, according to that facebook link:

Now I got confirmed by the workshop that our two Souls will be called immediately a new update to fix the heat pump is ready.
So they have confirmed that the cars have this problem. Good to see that fall in range wasn't something I just imagined.
′′ The factory is working on a blast to fix the problem ′′ - and that's good.

I’m not sure how to check if I have a battery heater

I did use Torque Pro and a OBDII bluetooth dongle, see this post.. But I get -50.0 C out of the sensors, I do not know if this definitely means that I have a battery heater, because the values do not make sense.

Yeah they have been working on a fix for some weeks now, my dealer told me the same thing when they checked mine a couple of weeks ago. They also tried some kind of update which didn’t work. Hopefully they will fix it before the winter ends.

I will download Torque Pro later and see what readings I get.

 

[JejuSoul]

-
I have 2 Soul EVs. Both made in April 2015.
The first I bought new nearly 6 years ago. It has never had a BMS upgrade.
The Torque codes we use were created on this car.
When I checked today I see.

I have no battery heater, therefore no sensors, therefore a value of 0C for the battery heater.
This is exactly the same as 5 years ago.

But the second car I bought 18 months ago, and then had the battery replaced.
see - Analysis of a replacement battery.
This car also has no battery heater. But does have an updated BMS.
When I checked today I see -50C as the value for both battery heater sensors.

Conclusions.
The BMS algorithm and PIDs for the battery heater have changed.
ZuinigeRijder does not have a battery heater.

Without data from someone who does have a battery heater I am not going to update the codes.
I will leave it as is because it will continue to work for those who haven't had a BMS upgrade.
-

 

[2016Electric]

-
I have 2 Soul EVs. Both made in April 2015.
The first I bought new nearly 6 years ago. It has never had a BMS upgrade.
The Torque codes we use were created on this car.
When I checked today I see.

I have no battery heater, therefore no sensors, therefore a value of 0C for the battery heater.
This is exactly the same as 5 years ago.

But the second car I bought 18 months ago, and then had the battery replaced.
see - Analysis of a replacement battery.
This car also has no battery heater. But does have an updated BMS.
When I checked today I see -50C as the value for both battery heater sensors.

Conclusions.
The BMS algorithm and PIDs for the battery heater have changed.
ZuinigeRijder does not have a battery heater.

Without data from someone who does have a battery heater I am not going to update the codes.
I will leave it as is because it will continue to work for those who haven't had a BMS upgrade.
-

Hi Jeju,

I have a 2016 with a battery heater, and have had the BMS update. Happy to report on some torque pro values if that would be helpful.. If so just let me know what you need.

 

[JejuSoul]

...I have a 2016 with a battery heater, and have had the BMS update. Happy to report on some torque pro values if that would be helpful.. If so just let me know what you need.

Create a screen like the one above and take a screenshot.

 

[Gordo]

I presumed you're planning on doing this, but just in case, please let us know when the new software update is out Dealer service is not always great around here, as the first post shows. I didn't even realize my heat pump wasn't working -- I bought it this way.

 

[Gordo]

There's an update out there, at least in Norway. If anybody stateside has any info, please share.

 

[2016Electric]

There's an update out there, at least in Norway. If anybody stateside has any info, please share.

Interesting.. So the heat pump starts working again with the Norway update for 2016 models?

I just got off the phone with the dealer who last checked my car (they have my vin etc). They said there is no new software available for my vehicle at this time.

This is for (Ontario, Canada).

I'll place another likely-to-be frustrating call with kia Canada and see what they have to say. Thanks for the uodate from Norway.

 

[notfred]

Mine was updated a couple of weeks ago to the bad version. I opened a case on the Kia Canada website yesterday and I'm waiting for the initial reply from them - website says it could be up to 48 hours.