Somes graphics about Chademo Charge Station.

[SoulEV2016]

Chademo is restrict to 500v DC, i think ... because all manufactured of Chademo/CCS station charge from my country restrict the spec to 500v DC (ABB, DBT, EVtronic).

Strange that eBus maker don't have 2 packs of 400v DC and 2 plugs for Chademo.

 

[JejuSoul]

Here's a photo of a N issan L eaf being stress tested with 600V chademo. It doesn't seem to damage the car.

Taken from YouTube video CHAdeMO QC25LV 600V 36kW by E MotorWerks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heJOTydLijY

 

[SoulEV2016]

Strange ... because the main goal of Chademo CanBus protocol is to restrict the voltage of the station (390v from 0-84% and 394v from 84-94% for the Soul EV).

So, when you use the 600v DC supply ... the Chademo PWM command restrict the output at the builder level.

And so when you plug an eBus 600v to 500v DC Chademo ... it don't like that. :mrgreen: (but chademo don't allow to open the power wire because of the invalid voltage mesure).

EDIT : see the LOGS in the vidéo = voltage restrict to 394v.
the 2 wire from the side of the fan is for this, i think ... to command the voltage of the supply by PWM in the Chademo Control Box.

Cool to see that we have a DC supply that it can have a wide range of voltage setting ... not usual at high current (90-450v like i see in the config file on the right).

 

[Elmil]

Here's a photo of a Nissan Leaf being stress tested with 600V chademo. It doesn't seem to damage the car.

No, it's the charger equipment that is stress tested.

It doesn't matter if the Chademo is capable of outputting 500V, 600V or 2000V - the charging voltage will always be a result of the charging current. The car requests current, the charger delivers current. Voltage is only a limiting parameter.

 

[SoulEV2016]

Yep, it's sure.
Current is always the limitation ... for connector after all. :mrgreen:

 

[JejuSoul]

A Chinese company is advertising a portable 15kW Chademo c harger for the Soul EV. --- http://www.electway.net/product/15KW_Portable_Fast_DC_Charger_for_Electric_car.html
It costs 4,600 Euros and is best used with a 380V Industrial power supply.
This is NOT something I would buy, and is NOT something I would recommend, but do think it is interesting.
Also I'm deliberately not linking to their Facebook page because that gives the impression that this is a German product.



Here's some photos of it it the trunk of a Soul EV.

and here is the screen it shows while charging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkg7_HVKxvg

 

[Elmil]

During Christmas holiday I made a 1000km roadtrip and visited several CHAdeMO stations. A utility company has installed two new Delta char gers along that road, and a few findings when using them are noteworthy:

1. When plugging in, the c harging started automatically, and also restarted automatically after 84% was finished. Nice.
2. The cable connector was labled 125A/500V as usual, but the stations delivered 133A+, and the power peaked at 51.5kW
3. The graphs below show one session. I have used the cumulated charge and discharge counters from the BMS to get the net energy added to the battery. I have many times noted that there is a delay of several minutes at SOC 81%, and this is shown here.

Can anyone come up with an explanation other than cell balancing?

 

[JejuSoul]

Just got this from an I oniq user in Germany. Why is this different from the graph on our car? Just noticed this is plotting using SOC% on the x axis whereas we are using time. Does that explain it? Also this is CCS and we use Chademo.

I made on my I oniq a plot of Battery charging current and battery voltage vs. SOC [%] on a 50kW CCS charging point.
I am a little bit surprised that battery voltage rises again above 84%, on mobile phones the voltage stays on the same level there.
Do you have a similar measurement on the Soul ? As far as I know the Soul stops charging earlier on a DC Fast c harger, maybe this curves explain the difference....

 

[Elmil]

Just got this from an I oniq user in Germany. Why is this different from the graph on our car? Just noticed this is plotting using SOC% on the x axis whereas we are using time. Does that explain it? Also this is CCS and we use Chademo.

I made on my I oniq a plot of Battery charging current and battery voltage vs. SOC [%] on a 50kW CCS charging point.
I am a little bit surprised that battery voltage rises again above 84%, on mobile phones the voltage stays on the same level there.
Do you have a similar measurement on the Soul ? As far as I know the Soul stops charging earlier on a DC Fast c harger, maybe this curves explain the difference....

Can't see your image (restrictions at Goingelectric), but isn't that just the same 2-stage strategy as we have in the Soul? Voltage target is around 389V for first stage (84%) and when restarted the voltage target is 394V. See the top of my graph above.

 

[JejuSoul]

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Thanks Elmil,

I will fix the permission problem preventing the image being seen.
I asked the Daejon EV group the same question. They gave the same answer. - I think if we transform the axis then two should be identical.

Also about the cell balancing you asked in the post before that.
A battery professional in that user group says it is cell balancing.

We then had the following discussion on why the balancing occurred at 81% not at the end of charge.

Ray EV user: I simply guess it's because fast charging finishes at 80%.
Ray EV user: No. I was confused since the Ray EV can only fast charge up to 80%

JejuSoul: It may just be that they wrote the BMS software for the Ray EV and haven't updated it.

 

[Elmil]

.
Thanks JejuSoul, I see the graph now.

I agree that it's the same as with the Soul. First stage has current limit 125A, voltage target 390V. Second stage has about 55A current limit and voltage target 394V. This is the same as I see in my car. The SOC% is probably a bit lower due to the bigger battery capacity.

Maybe there is a SOC confusion in the user group discussion you refer to? 84% user SOC (which I refer to) is actually 80% total battery SOC.

To be more precise, the cell balancing in my car always appear at 81.5% user SOC, corresponding to 78.0% battery SOC.

 

[SoulEV2016]

cell phone : 15 Wh,
max 1.5A continuously, and die after 150 cycles with this current,
max = 750 cycles at 0.5A (dead, really ...).

EV Battery : 29 700 Wh,
max 230A continuously and don't die ... at all !
max = 3800 cycles at 75A (70% good, 30% used).

example : http://www.automobile-propre.com/forums/bmw-i3/les-cellules-de-la-i3-en-samsung-sdi-photos-t6406.html

cell for an EV battery is not the same cell for a phone : http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=774

 

[JejuSoul]

-
It seems both the new N issan L eaf and the new Soul EV will keep Chademo and not swap to CCS.

So this is good news. - https://www.facebook.com/groups/SoulEV/permalink/1311798705567406/

The revised CHAdeMO standard (ver. 1.2) was formally announced on March 24th, 2017.

Whereas the standard maximum current for Direct Current Quick Charging (CHAdeMO standard) had previously been limited to 125 Ampere, the revised standard increases maximum current to 400 Ampere, enabling an increase in charging output from 50kW to 150kW. This helps further improve the convenience of plug-in vehicles by shortening charging times to approximately 1/3 of previous charging times.

T esla Superc hargers operate at 365 amps today.

 

[SoulEV2016]

Official communication of the Chademo Association for the new 400A (150kW) on 1 plug : https://www.chademo.com/technology/high-power/

 

[JejuSoul]

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Thanks SoulEV2016.

Having faster charging available for long distance travel makes sense. Especially with the bigger batteries that will soon be available.

However these are what have just been installed at the local beach. 20kW c hargers with double Chademo connectors.
I don't know if it will do both cars at the same time 10kW each, or one will wait for the other to finish. Will test soon.
Two have already been built, There's 5 more under construction.



They also have this kind at the rental office near the airport.



Korea is supposedly switching to CCS only from this month and yet all these new c hargers are Chademo only.

 

[SoulEV2016]

Somes builder of Chademo charger ( http://www.automobile-propre.com/forums/recharge-voitures-electriques/association-chademo-brochure-rapport-2017-t7348.html )

 

[notfred]

I just used a CHAdeMO for the first time (had the car 18 months but there haven't been any Level 3 chargers around here). It was a Delta and it kept starting to charge and then immediately stopping with "Status Code: 114001, Charging termination". I found I needed the charge timer override button out i.e. the opposite of trying to charge immediately from a Level 2.

 

[SoulEV2016]

Search for the 394v target (pass from 390v CCCV to 394v target on Chademo charger).

OK, find by an other french member : cut the chademo at 82,5% and the 394v target is available = more time at 22kW for the 94% goal.

 

[JejuSoul]

-
Here's some photos of a specially modified L eaf charging with 150kW Chademo at a recent preview in Japan.
The c harger is a dual Chademo Signet. We have one locally, but I don't think it is 150kW.

 

[JejuSoul]

-

Update - I think my post below is mistaken. There was no cell balancing after charging finished. What happened is that Torque froze when charging finished. I didn't see that the cell balancing had already occurred at the exact point charging finished and the voltage had dropped until I turned the car on a minute later and Torque re-started..

Here's a Ray EV chademo session - charging from 10.5% to 80% .Took 18 minutes. Ambient temp = 20C
This post is to talk about the cell balancing at the end.
I originally posted this to talk about the capacity of the pack here - Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV



The Ray EV only has SOC BMS, which changes from 2% at empty to 90% at full. There is no SOC Display.

In the charging session above 80% is reached after 977 seconds. One second after this the Energy Charged counter stops increasing.
At 1064 seconds the charging session ended. I think cell balancing is occurring for the roughly 1 1/2 minutes at this point.
During that time the energy draw remains constant at -26.8kW but nothing happens to any of the counters.
Battery Voltage stops at 368.1. Max cell voltage 4.18V. Min cell voltage 4.16V.

At 1063 seconds the cell voltage deviation drops to zero. One second later the charging session ended.

At 1064 when the c harger stops there is a drop in Battery Voltage to 357.0 V

Interestingly the time seen on c harger does not include the balancing part. Seen from the display on the Chademo stand. Timer stopped at 16 mins and 19 secs = 979 seconds. Had I been paying by the minute I would not have been charged for the 1 1/2 minutes that the cells were balancing. This c harger is currently free. Later it will cost 178 won per kWh. (about 20 US cents / kWh).