Battery Ageing Model

[Birkeland]

No change in my deterioration data at about 25.400km. Like JejuSoul, I havent charged to 100% for a long time.
I will have my car at the dealership for the steering recall and to fix leakage in the A/C system (a problem on many KIA Souls in Norway it seems) on wednesday. I will ask them to check the SOH data.

 

[JejuSoul]

My deterioration numbers moved back down after a big jump up last week. Now 20,264km max 8.5% min 3.6%

Here's a different perspective on the data. Plotting the deterioration against time. Elmil's car is doing much worse than the others in this graph because he he is driving much more distance each month. In our data deterioration is related to distance travelled not time. Saw a comment from Australia recently about a 2012 Nissan L eaf that just sold. Sitting on the Dealer's lot for 4 years had caused >15% deterioration (top bar of the L eafs 12). There must be a time effect on the Soul EV deterioration numbers. We just haven't got data for it yet.
The 4 cars in order from the top - Birkeland, JejuSoul, ZuinigeRijder, Elmil

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An aside for buyers in Irvine, Ca.
If you were going to choose between these 2 cars
http://autos.siouxcityjournal.com/search/make-kia/model-soul+ev/location-irvine-ca/detail-KNDJP3AE5G7006115
http://autos.siouxcityjournal.com/search/make-kia/model-soul+ev/location-irvine-ca/detail-KNDJX3AE1G7016172
Always pick the second one, because the first one has been sitting on the Dealer's lot for 12 months. You can estimate the date by the last 5 numbers of the VIN.
We don't know how much the deterioration of the main battery would be but we should assume it exists.

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

My last measurement was 1 July 2016:
km: 31.340
Maximum Deterioration: 10.5
Minimum Deterioration: 8.5
Average Deterioration: 9.5

Unfortunately I have no data before 507 days old (the second point is where I got my car, but no real measurement though, I assumed a linear degradation)
My car is from 28 August 2014 and I bought it at 17 September 2015 with 10.000 km.

If I plot the Average Deterioration over time, I get this picture.

And this is the same data plotted over the driven km (for the data I had written down the km, the second point is where I got my car, but no real measurement though, I assumed a linear degradation):

It seems the deterioration is stable or even better the last 170 days and 13.000 km

My last 5 digits of the VIN is 00482.

 

[Birkeland]

At 25.736km the battery displays SOH 100%

I also charged to 100% for the first time in many weeks, and my deterioration numbers are the same as before.

BTW: My 5 last digits on VIN is 02969

 

[JejuSoul]

Thanks for posting those VIN numbers. The production dates of your vehicles can now be guessed and thus the transit time from Korea. ZuinigeRijder I guess you car was 7 weeks in transit. Birkeland your car took 11 weeks. I think the reshipping from Germany to Norway caused that greater delay. The chart I displayed for deterioration against time will look much better for the European cars with this data. My car was brought straight from the factory, so in my case the plot will not alter.

To work out the date from the VIN -
From June 1st 2014 there were about 400 cars produced each month.
From June 1st 2015 there were about 800 cars produced each month.
From Feb 1st 2016 there were about 1066 cars produced each month.

These numbers match the announced maximum battery production. Also match the VINs I see on brand new cars. And are a couple of months ahead of actual sales figures.
see SK Innovation doubles EV battery production

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I too went to Kia for a service today. Changed the air con filter again!
Checked the battery SOH with GDS and I too am at 100%.

The difference between Kia's GDS and KDS. One runs on a windows laptop. The other is android based.
In my case they added a wifi OBD device in place of my KW902. The extension wire I use is not a 'Y', I got it because it has the switch.

 

[Birkeland]

I fell asleep while charging the car and charged the battery full (instead of the usual 45-65% SOC). A new calibration must have taken place, because the deterioration values have now changed to min=7% and max=9%. This happened at 26.300km on the odometer.

 

[mtndrew1]

I got my first deterioration readings via Torque Pro.

Min Det: 6.5%
Max Det: 9.0%

Max Det Cell: 3
Min Det Cell: 41

CEC: 9120
CED: 8721

Odometer: 27,100 miles

US ZIP Code: 90248 home, 90015 office

 

[JejuSoul]

I got my first deterioration readings via Torque Pro.
Min Det: 6.5%
Max Det: 9.0%
Odometer: 27,100 miles

My battery stats recently taken at 10,000km
Min 0% det and Max 3.5% det.
Wonder where that falls on the scale?

Both of these results are excellent, both among the best we have seen.
mtndrew1: how old is your car? Am guessing you have had it two years already.

 

[mtndrew1]

mtndrew1: how old is your car? Am guessing you have had it two years already.

I took delivery of my car in October of 2014. I'll check the sticker but it must have been manufactured a month or two before that, so it's about two years old.

 

[SoulEV2016]

My odometer and stats on Torque Pro.
Montain driving and High Power profil (no ECO and ON/OFF Accelerator Pedal).
Majority of travels = use less than 48% of the battery.
Charge cord always plugged (more than 20h per day, EVSE Charger).
2016 car.

http://imageshack.com/a/img921/6732/2VqJRe.jpg

 

[JejuSoul]

My odometer and stats on Torque Pro.

Thanks. How old is this car? When did you buy it?
This car is quite unusual. Your hours used is extremely high compared to km driven. This is explained by the slow charging. 20 hours per day. Charging counts as hours used.
More odd is that your figures for discharge are much higher than the charge figures. All new cars come with a charged battery. The counters start at zero with the battery already charged.
Hence for a short time discharge values are slightly higher than the charge figures. This soon reverses because of efficiency losses.
I have never seen data before where the difference on a new car is greater than the size of the battery 75Ah or 27kWh.
Am wondering if this is something to do with the very slow charging.

 

[SoulEV2016]

march 2016.

be carefull, it's 637 hours (the ,0000 is to check if ECU frames have been dropped).
but, yes ... i use an EVSE Charger with the minimal setting = 4,8A at 230v AC.

with my previous electric car (home builded), i have an 1,5A at 230v AC setting (and drive the same kilometric profil).
i don't drive a lot, that's why i want a slow charger.

 

[mtndrew1]

march 2016.

be carefull, it's 637 hours (the ,0000 is to check if ECU frames have been dropped).
but, yes ... i use an EVSE Charger with the minimal setting = 4,8A at 230v AC.

with my previous electric car (home builded), i have an 1,5A at 230v AC setting (and drive the same kilometric profil).
i don't drive a lot, that's why i want a slow charger.

Are you aware that they lower the amperage, the lower the charging efficiency? You burn up something like 25% more kWh charging at the minimum rate as opposed to the maximum on AC power.

There is a fixed overhead use from electronics and cooling systems of something like 150-200W whenever charging is active, so the longer you drag out the charging time the more power is wasted.

 

[SoulEV2016]

i generate 900 kWh in solar panel per year.
not a problem.

 

[mtndrew1]

i generate 900 kWh in solar panel per year.
not a problem.

Even so, what's the point of wasting power and extending charge times?

Even at 7.2 kW charging power the C rate is so low as to be of no effect to battery longevity.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, purposefully extending the charge time merely wears out the electronics and cooling systems prematurely while wasting power.

 

[SoulEV2016]

the problem is ... i don't like the 6600w solution (but it's not the point).
even at 2000w with an heater, i scream all my body because it's too powerfull.

don't loose the point "charger cord is connected more than 20h per day".
it's like the water pump in your fish bocal ... 24h/24.
or the power supply in the server computer (24h/24).

i want a predictal power consumption in my living place.
i can't handle the 6600w in 5h.
i can handle 1000w 24h/24 (if needed).

 

[SoulEV2016]

extending the charge time merely wears out the electronics and cooling systems prematurely while wasting power.

1) right, but that why builder of charging part must hard thing of most longest solution to maintain the fonctionnality of his product.
i don't accept the aging degradation of electrical gelo. condensator.
we have tantal solution since 30 years at same size and performance (in µF) but with longest life.

2) except 4 weeks in my country (35°C), the water pump and fan on the front grid don't run when charger is ON (-17°C to 18°C).

 

[Leafer]

I have finally made some time to gather my deterioration numbers. Not good :-(

I used ZuinigeRijder's spreadsheet (b.t.w. an obvious error I noticed in cell K25 ... I did not check the rest of the 01Feb2016 version of "KiaSoulEV2101_2105.xls" for other errors) and plugged in my data from alOBD Terminal.

Odometer: 13,794 km
I took delivery approx Nov2015 of a 1 year old Dealer Demo with 9,225km. MY2015 (originally delivered late October 2014).
Climate: Mediterranean.

I don't know what the dealer did in the 1st year. I usually charge to 80% using 230V/10A (KIA supplied charge cord). I've never been below 8% SOC. I occasionally charge to 100%, but drive it within a few hours after completion of 100% charge.

State of Charge of Battery(BMS) 64.50 %
Available Charge Power 90.00 kW
Available Discharge Power 90.00 kW
Battery Current 4.00 A
Battery DC Voltage 371.00 V
Battery Module 1 Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Module 2 Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Module 3 Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Module 4 Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Module 5 Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Module 6 Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Module 7 Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Module 8 Temperature 25.00 °C
Max Cell Voltage 3.86 V
Max Cell Voltage No. 42.00
Min Cell Voltage 3.86 V
Min Cell Voltage No. 82.00
Auxiliary Battery Voltage 14.40 V
Cumulative Charge Current 9137.10 A
Cumulative Discharge Current 9220.60 A
Cumulative Charge Energy 3284.40 kWh
Cumulative Discharge Energy 3250.20 kWh
Cumulative Operating Time 5574191.00 Sec 64.52 days
Inverter Capacitor Voltage 37.00 V
Isolation Resistance 1000.00 kOhm

Battery Inlet Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Min Temperature 24.00 °C
Battery Max Temperature 24.00 °C
Available Charge Power 90.00 kW
Available Discharge Power 90.00 kW
Airbag H/wire Duty 85.00 %
Battery Heater 1 Temperature 0.00 °C
Battery Heater 2 Temperature 0.00 °C
Max Deterioration 14.10 %
Max Deterioration Cell No 43.00
Min Deterioration 12.10 %
Min Deterioration Cell No 83.00
SOC Display 67.00 %

 

[JejuSoul]

L eafer - thanks for the data. Do not be too worried by those deterioration numbers. It is only after measuring for a few seasons that you can begin to see a trend. The numbers bounce around depending on the temperature and how recently you last calibrated the battery, and probably a host of other factors as well. The outliers on the chart are the people who have only posted a single reading.

If those deterioration numbers are real then you would probably notice reduced range in your daily driving. I assume they are not and you still see full range. Other ways to check include asking for an SOH check when you next take the car to be serviced, doing a calibration check and recording the differences in the Cumulative Energy Counters, or do a Tony William's style range test.

 

[Leafer]

Leafer - thanks for the data. Do not be too worried by those deterioration numbers. It is only after measuring for a few seasons that you can begin to see a trend. The numbers bounce around depending on the temperature and how recently you last calibrated the battery, and probably a host of other factors as well. The outliers on the chart are the people who have only posted a single reading.

If those deterioration numbers are real then you would probably notice reduced range in your daily driving. I assume they are not and you still see full range. Other ways to check include asking for an SOH check when you next take the car to be serviced, doing a calibration check and recording the differences in the Cumulative Energy Counters, or do a Tony William's style range test.

Thank you, Jeju.

The estimated displayed range is indeed reduced, but being a GOM ... I do not pay much attention to it, and I can not scientifically comment on the magnitude of the reduction. When time allows ... I will try to do a calibration, but a Tony-Williams-Test is out of the question in this area where I live due to very irregular terrain and infrastructure conditions. For now I will simply do a regular (quarterly or semi-annually) report as above.