Setting up Torque to show BMS data

[Elmil]

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Unfortunately it seems that only members can see pictures from elbilforum.no ...

Regarding strategies for 12V charging, one must keep in mind that lead-acid batteries in general have a resting voltage of 12.8V when fully charged, and should then not be held at 14V+ for prolonged times. When they are full, only a floating voltage (typically around 13.0-13.5V) should be applied. This is probably what we see in our cars.

But there may be tradeoffs done in the implementation, because the DCDC can't know exactly how much current goes into the battery (to my knowledge there is no current sensor on the 12V battery), and how much is drawn by the 12V loads.
On the other hand, most major loads are known to the system so they should be able to compute a reasonable value for the 12V current.

I have checked a lot of my saved logs from the nightly charging (2kW). There seems to be at least two strategies for charging the 12V battery. Most common is for the DCDC to start at 14.5V and go to float at 13.2V after one hour. Approximately once a week it starts at 14.5V and goes to 13.6V float after 3 hours. The voltage on the battery is then 13.0V and 13.4V respectively, due to 0.2V drop from DCDC output.

 

[JejuSoul]

Elbil also bans all users from Asia. I have asked the admin twice for my IP to be unblocked but my request has been ignored.
To view the Norwegian Kia Soul EV forum I must use a VPN from Europe.

En feil har inntruffet!
Beklager Gjest, du er utestengt fra dette forumet!
Denne utestengningen er satt til å vare på ubestemt tid. Mener du at det er en feil, kan du sende en e-post til [email protected]

 

[Usikker]

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Unfortunately it seems that only members can see pictures from elbilforum.no ...

Hmmm, maybe I'l have to find a free share... Any special you can recommend ?

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Regarding strategies for 12V charging, one must keep in mind that lead-acid batteries in general have a resting voltage of 12.8V when fully charged, and should then not be held at 14V+ for prolonged times. When they are full, only a floating voltage (typically around 13.0-13.5V) should be applied. This is probably what we see in our cars.

Not sure I agree to that
As long as they use a regular start battery like petrol/diesel cars use the volt need to be higher but.... If they change to batteries used in solar panel system (fritidsbatteri) you will have a more powerful battery, not sure why there is a start battery in the car because you don't need the capability of heavy Amp drain during start like a starter engine use

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But there may be tradeoffs done in the implementation, because the DCDC can't know exactly how much current goes into the battery (to my knowledge there is no current sensor on the 12V battery), and how much is drawn by the 12V loads.

I think it know, in my 2018 there is a small junction box on the negative battery connector with two wires and to me it looks like a shunt measuring power in/out of the battery


I have tried to find the workshop manual for this care for months but no luck, I know Kia has the Pay site but i was hoping to find it as a pdf somewhere, would be easier to identify how the cars is connected together

 

[Usikker]

An update with link that work from my prev. post





(fixed link)

 

[Elmil]

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The charge curve looks normal, 3h at 14.5V followed by 13.6V float, although in my car the Amps level out at 4A, which seems as a reasonable load by the ECU:s and the OBC+LDC, so not much current goes into the 12V bat.

And yes, you are perfectly correct about the sensor, it's a current shunt on the minus. According to the workshop manual it is connected to the LDC but the value is still to be found on the CAN bus..

 

[Usikker]

... if any can find the teaspon and help that would be great because I am in deap water when it comes to Hex ande Desimal...

If someone can explain this to me that would been great

From the soulspy log I have this:

>21 05
21 05
7EC 10 2D 61 05 FF FF FF FF
7EC 21 C3 C3 C3 C3 C3 02 02
7EC 22 01 00 00 00 00 11 39
7EC 23 23 28 00 01 50 02 01
7EC 24 00 00 00 00 00 00 A7
7EC 25 00 00 C3 C4 00 00 00
7EC 26 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

I know that this is the last batteryCell 97-100 (+ 101) and I know I can tranlate C3 to 195 and from the Torque CSV file I can see that this value need to be devided with 50 to get the value 3,9volt

000_Cell Voltage 97,Cell 97,2105,e/50,2.80,4.20,V,7E4

ok but how do you identify e (where comes e from ) I have just guessed me to that it is in the second line comparing to all the other 96 cell but wit was just a guess and in the Torque line what is 7E4

If it's to complicated to describe, it's ok I was just hoping to learn something new on the last day of the year

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

Hi all, it's been a while!

I added some new codes in Extra Gauges to show only positive numbers while charging on a CHAdeMO charger (and 0 otherwise). It's easier to read for everybody instead of negative numbers.

It looks like this:

 

[Usikker]

Is it normal that you see strange values in the Torque log like this ?


Fixed link

 

[Usikker]

Hi, two questions

How can I get Torque to show the distance on my trips


and is it possibe to show the odometer in Torque ?

(fixed link)

 

[Usikker]

I think the following files need a new version for the 2018 Kia with 30kWh battery if we agree to 101 BatCell.
https://github.com/JejuSoul/OBD-PIDs-for-HKMC-EVs/tree/master/Soul%20EV/extendedpids

Kia_Soul_EV_BMS_data.csv
000_Maximum Cell Voltage No.,Max Cell V No.,2101,y,0,101,,7E4
000_Maximum Deterioration Cell No.,Max Det Cell No.,2105,ab,0,101,,7E4
000_Minimum Cell Voltage No.,Min Cell V No.,2101,aa,0,101,,7E4
000_Minimum Deterioration Cell No.,Min Det Cell No.,2105,ae,0,101,,7E4

Kia_Soul_EV_Extra_gauges.csv
004_CALC Average Cell Voltage,Avg Cell V,2101,val{000_Battery DC Voltage}/101,2.800,4.200,V,7E4

The RED marked values is 96 in the original files

Kia_Soul_EV_VIN_data.csv
005_Year, Year, 0902, K+1945, 2014, 2035, , 7E2

This one give me a 2019 model

Edit!
There might be more

Kia_Soul_EV_Extra_gauges.csv
004_CALC Lost of SOH,Lost SOH,2101,27*val{004_CALC AVRDET For SOH Divided 100},0.00,27.00,kWh,7E2
004_CALC SOH Battery in kWh,SOH in kWh,2101,27+val{004_CALC Lost of SOH},0.00,31.00,kWh,7E2

Do the red 27 need to be adjusted to 30 ?

 

[Usikker]

Kia_Soul_EV_VIN_data.csv
005_Year, Year, 0902, K+1945, 2014, 2035, , 7E2

This one give me a 2019 model

After reading more of this : http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=135&start=370 and this http://www.kia-forums.com/general-kia-non-model-specific-discussion/64337-kia-vin-number-how-read.html I think I understand more

My car report this from the OBD command
09 02
7EA 10 14 49 02 01 4B 4E 41
7EA 21 4A 58 38 31 45 46 4A
7EA 22 37 30 32 32 35 39 32

The blue text is from that I understand the VIN code and the Bold/Underline is the value that tell what year model it is
So with ref. to linked pages 41 = A, 42 = B, 43 = C, 44 = D, 45 = E, 46= F, 47 = G, 48 = H, 49 = Not in use, 4A = J
And A = 2010 so J is 2018

It's not easy for this formula to calculate correct if you skip values in a range
005_Year, Year, 0902, K+1945, 2014, 2035, , 7E2
The K is reading 4A

Is is possible to make an If something formula or is it just easier to adjust 1945 to 1944 to get the correct value

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

I have a new formula for VIN, but this will require the latest Torque app (I must check if it has been released yet, as I have the beta version). It works well, but won't work for people with older version of the app (like the ones you get for free on the KW902 CD).

Could you try this on your 2018 model?

005_Year, Year, 0902, LOOKUP(K:0:69=2014:70=2015:71=2016:72=2017:74=2018:75=2019:76=2020), 2014, 2035, , 7E2

(Source; https://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Equations -- LOOKUP and CLOSEST are new, and quite useful)

 

[Usikker]

The lookup is not working as it is now (I have tested), only in the beta version..
I'm using the pro version of torque from google store

 

[Usikker]

So, until next version Torque support LOOKUP maybe I can try to find the odometer value

Been using SoulSpy that show odometer and then looking into the spreadsheed I think the odmeter value is here in the red text

4F0 00 00 24 00 00 59 9B 01 but I'm not sure how to "convert this into something usefull

If I have the correct data it should be 10530.4 Km

Anyone ?

 

[Usikker]

And the next is outside temp...

Dies it come from this one ?
653 53 0E 00 00 00 46 00 00

But Im not sure I understand the info in the excel sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YYlZ-IcTQlz-LzaYkHO-7a4SFM8QYs2BGNXiSU5_EwI/edit#gid=0

 

[SiLiZiUMM]

Latest Torque Pro app is 1.8.199 (this is the one I have as well). If anyone could try the code with anything but a MY16 I'd be happy!

 

[Usikker]

Torque PID's for 30kWh battery if we agree that there is 100 Cell's

Kia_Soul_EV_Battery_Cell_2018_data.csv
000_Cell Voltage 01,Cell 01,2102,e/50,2.80,4.20,V,7E4
--kutt--
000_Cell Voltage 100,Cell 100,2105,h/50,2.80,4.20,V,7E4

Do the RED lines need to be modified to the BLUE to be correct ?

Kia_Soul_EV_BMS_data.csv

; 000_Maximum Cell Voltage No.,Max Cell V No.,2101,y,0,96,,7E4
000_Maximum Cell Voltage No.,Max Cell V No.,2101,y,0,100,,7E4

; 000_Maximum Deterioration Cell No.,Max Det Cell No.,2105,ab,0,96,,7E4
000_Maximum Deterioration Cell No.,Max Det Cell No.,2105,ab,0,100,,7E4

; 000_Minimum Cell Voltage No.,Min Cell V No.,2101,aa,0,96,,7E4
000_Minimum Cell Voltage No.,Min Cell V No.,2101,aa,0,100,,7E4

; 000_Minimum Deterioration Cell No.,Min Det Cell No.,2105,ae,0,96,,7E4
000_Minimum Deterioration Cell No.,Min Det Cell No.,2105,ae,0,100,,7E4


Kia_Soul_EV_Extra_gauges.csv

; 004_CALC Lost of SOH,Lost SOH,2101,27*val{004_CALC AVRDET For SOH Divided 100},0.00,27.00,kWh,7E2
004_CALC Lost of SOH,Lost SOH,2101,30*val{004_CALC AVRDET For SOH Divided 100},0.00,30.00,kWh,7E2


; 004_CALC SOH Battery in kWh,SOH in kWh,2101,27+val{004_CALC Lost of SOH},0.00,31.00,kWh,7E2
004_CALC SOH Battery in kWh,SOH in kWh,2101,30+val{004_CALC Lost of SOH},0.00,31.00,kWh,7E2


; 004_CALC SOH Battery in 100 ratio,SOH in %,2101,val{004_CALC SOH Battery in kWh}/27*100,0.0,110.0,%,7E2
004_CALC SOH Battery in 100 ratio,SOH in %,2101,val{004_CALC SOH Battery in kWh}/30*100,0.0,110.0,%,7E2

 

[JejuSoul]

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Yes. All those changes are correct for the 2018 Soul EV.

I am uncertain about the way to separate these codes though.
Am looking for suggestions on which of these 3 options is preferred.

1/ Keep the files in the Soul EV folder as they are, but add some new PIDs into them.
The new PIDs will have a _2018_ suffix.
Everyone loads the same file, but older cars ignore the codes with the _2018_ suffix.
To use the same dashboards 2018 cars replace the PID with the same name by removing the _2018_ suffix.

2/ Add 2 new files for the BMS codes and extra gauges. This is what we did when the OBC changed. And I have already done it for the cell data.
Example - Kia_Soul_EV_Battery_Cell_data.csv and Kia_Soul_EV_Battery_Cell_2018_data.csv
Every user would need to choose which of the 2 files to download and install.

3/ Add a new folder for the 2018 Soul EV.

The 2020 Soul EV will probably have so many changes that I will certainly start it from scratch in a new folder. The 2018 however is identical apart from the minor changes in the BMS.

 

[ZuinigeRijder]

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I am uncertain about the way to separate these codes though.
Am looking for suggestions on which of these 3 options is preferred.

I prefer option 2, because you are not confused with codes with will not work for your model year. And you can more easy compare what has been changed for your model.

Just grab the correct files.

 

[JejuSoul]

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On another thread Kish asked some questions about the way our Torque codes display data from a brand new battery pack on a 27kWh 2015 Soul EV..

The diagnostic data provided by the BMS does not include the SOH. It only has the min and max deterioration data from the total capacity.
After nearly 3 years of monitoring this data we were able to conclude that the SOH number as checked by a Kia service tech is actually a computed value. It is the average of min and max, taken away from 110. At Kia service any number greater than 100 is shown as 100%.

What this means is that the car loses a 10% buffer before any loss of usable capacity occurs.

In the Torque codes we are not able to provide simple logic such as if SOH > 100% show 100%.
All we can do is simple addition and subtraction.
What we do is show loss of usable capacity as a negative number. The 10% buffer is positive.
For the next two years you will have to ignore these 'false' positives.
In the graphic above SOH is really 100%, SOH in kWh is really 27kWh and Lost SOH is really zero.